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Best 7artisans M-mount Lenses?


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I'm pretty new here.  You guys are super interesting to observe.  Great banter and care.  Scientifically and politically.   

Smart bunch!!

I've been a motion shooter for 30 years involved in many forums.  

Back to 7artisans.    

The 35mm f2 flairs like nothing I've ever seen.  Even on a cloudy day the filtered sun casts a white haze that's nuts. 

BUT....the lens can produce some really nice, sharp images.  With decent Sonnar bokeh.   I just use my hand to block flair.  

I bought my first one when it was released a couple of years ago.  Returned it.   I kept looking back at the images and re-bought it on ebay for $150 bucks!

A solid little gem that costs me next to nothing.  A great little alternative.

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Am 20.8.2020 um 21:04 schrieb rivi1969:

Thank you. I been interested in one of these super fast f1.1 for a while, the TTArtisans goes for 850 USD and the Voigtlander 50mm f1.2 for 1000 or so, this is like the best next thing, it looks pretty decent at 1.4! my other option would be the Voigtlander f1.5 which goes for 650, which is sharp wide open... too many options! 

Maybe the new TTartisan 1.4/50 is another alternative ...

https://leicarumors.com/2020/09/03/new-ttartisan-50mm-f-1-4-lens-for-leica-m-mount-to-be-announced-on-friday-pre-orders-now-open.aspx/

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Interesting to see so many different opinions :)

 

Let me share my experience/opinions with these lenses (opinions! not facts):

  • 7artisans 50/1.1 --> it's shit, and not sharp, one trick pony for interesting "lomo" bokeh at wide apertures (only shot with it on digital, did not own)
  • 7artisans 35/2 --> it's sharp, good contrast, only 35mm sonnar (derived) that I know of, but has barrel distortion, so no good for architecture, great for everything else, handling is great, great on both film & digital
  • 7artisans 75/1.25 --> nice bokeh, great focal length, rather big, lens cap is alone reason to buy the lens, not super sharp to be honest, good on film & digital
  • ttartisan 35/1.4 --> it's ok'ish, good on film, less on digital, if you don't need that 1.4, go with the 7artisans 35/2, it's much smaller, and doesn't have annoying integrated lens hood
  • ttartisan 50/0.95 --> very nice, but, one trick pony (f0.95), sharp in center, moderate on edges, color rendering needs to be your taste (I like it), very nice on film, good on digital

The not mentioned ones, like the 28/21mm variants, I do not own. To me, the only lenses that are worth paying for, are the 7artisans 35/2 and the ttartisans 50/0.95, the first, because it's just good, great handling, and sonnar optical design. The 50/0.95 just because of it's novelty.

 

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On 9/6/2020 at 7:04 AM, BOLEX said:

I'm pretty new here.  You guys are super interesting to observe.  Great banter and care.  Scientifically and politically.   

Smart bunch!!

I've been a motion shooter for 30 years involved in many forums.  

Back to 7artisans.    

The 35mm f2 flairs like nothing I've ever seen.  Even on a cloudy day the filtered sun casts a white haze that's nuts. 

BUT....the lens can produce some really nice, sharp images.  With decent Sonnar bokeh.   I just use my hand to block flair.  

I bought my first one when it was released a couple of years ago.  Returned it.   I kept looking back at the images and re-bought it on ebay for $150 bucks!

A solid little gem that costs me next to nothing.  A great little alternative.

I bought an early 7A 35 f2 in Sony mount before the M mount was made. The early one was extremely flare prone, and it appeared the edges of the optical elements had not been blackened - acting like mirrors for internal reflections. I was impressed with the performance apart from flare.  Later I tried the M mount version, and the flare tendency was certainly reduced. I think that shows the intent to continue improving. My M sample was even 8-bit coded - but I hear they have stopped doing that - likely due to patent issues.

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43 minutes ago, maartenmoerman said:

Interesting to see so many different opinions :)

 

Let me share my experience/opinions with these lenses (opinions! not facts):

  • 7artisans 50/1.1 --> it's shit, and not sharp, one trick pony for interesting "lomo" bokeh at wide apertures (only shot with it on digital, did not own)
  • 7artisans 35/2 --> it's sharp, good contrast, only 35mm sonnar (derived) that I know of, but has barrel distortion, so no good for architecture, great for everything else, handling is great, great on both film & digital
  • 7artisans 75/1.25 --> nice bokeh, great focal length, rather big, lens cap is alone reason to buy the lens, not super sharp to be honest, good on film & digital
  • ttartisan 35/1.4 --> it's ok'ish, good on film, less on digital, if you don't need that 1.4, go with the 7artisans 35/2, it's much smaller, and doesn't have annoying integrated lens hood
  • ttartisan 50/0.95 --> very nice, but, one trick pony (f0.95), sharp in center, moderate on edges, color rendering needs to be your taste (I like it), very nice on film, good on digital

The not mentioned ones, like the 28/21mm variants, I do not own. To me, the only lenses that are worth paying for, are the 7artisans 35/2 and the ttartisans 50/0.95, the first, because it's just good, great handling, and sonnar optical design. The 50/0.95 just because of it's novelty.

 

I wish all reviews were like this.  Thanks @maartenmoerman !

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2 hours ago, maartenmoerman said:

...Let me share my experience/opinions with these lenses (opinions! not facts):

...7artisans 50/1.1 --> it's shit, and not sharp, one trick pony for interesting "lomo" bokeh at wide apertures (only shot with it on digital, did not own)...

With due respect my experience has been the polar opposite of yours. So good, in fact, were the images taken with the first example I acquired that I bought a second example for my other body. Furthermore the lens is anything but a "one trick pony"; once stopped-down past the 'glow' stage - from around f2 to f2.8 - the lens is almost as sharp as my 50mm Summicron and can therefore be used just as an everyday 'Standard' without any noticeable image IQ issues whatsoever. I have undertaken studio-based tests to confirm this observation. Certainly it is highly unlikely that anyone looking at a pair of prints - one taken on the Summicron and the other on the 7A - could spot any difference whatsoever.

It is, however, very true that each lens has to be carefully calibrated for any one particular body - mine do not perform in exactly the same manner on the 'wrong' body - and so I suspect that the lens you shot with on digital but did not own was nowhere near properly calibrated for the body you used.

FWIW I've posted, in various places in this forum, a great many dozens of images over the years taken with my pair of lenses and no-one has ever said "Crikey! That image is shit."

If you wish to see proof of their performance I would be happy to dig some out.

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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Maybe the specimen that I tested was not good, I shot it on Sony A7, so no problem with focus being off due to rangefinder calibration (used focus peaking). I immediately tossed that lens out, and never gave it another thought.

The others I have shot on my Leica M6(film), MP(film), M9(digital) M240(digital), and Sony A7. I never calibrated the lenses myself, but immediately had them properly collimated once acquired. My Leica's I know are  spot on, as I like everything calibrated to factory standards (it makes all the difference).

I have scanned negatives and positives from the other lenses, with Hasselblad/Imacon scanner (the starwars scanner), and my conclusion are based on scans from that.

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1 hour ago, maartenmoerman said:

Maybe the specimen that I tested was not good...

That is very possible.

I was so pleased with the pair of 50's I had that I bought the 7Artisans 75mm f1.25 M as soon as it became available but after several hours of carefully controlled studio / outdoor tests I realised that there was absolutely no way that the lens could be calibrated for both close-up and distance work at all apertures so had to return it to the dealership. I have, however, read many glowing reports by other forumites since then so perhaps the sample I received had some teething issues yet to be resolved?

Philip.

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I have the 35mm 1.4 for Sony and just received a 75mm 1.25. It's like they are from two different companies. the 35 is a fun lens not very sharp and flares. The 75 could come with a Leica filter ring it's that well made everything is tight and works smoothly I used it in really bad lighting to test stress the lens or me and I thought it did very well. I would love to see a Leica 75 to compare I am sure it would be better but this 7 artisans was no slouch. Now I was using both of these lenses on a Sony A7s so I have no idea how the RF pairs with a M camera. I just don't use my M-3, M-5, M4-2 and Hexar RF anymore even though I still have a lot of film in my freezer.

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2 hours ago, agfa100 said:

I have the 35mm 1.4 for Sony and just received a 75mm 1.25. It's like they are from two different companies. the 35 is a fun lens not very sharp and flares. The 75 could come with a Leica filter ring it's that well made everything is tight and works smoothly I used it in really bad lighting to test stress the lens or me and I thought it did very well. I would love to see a Leica 75 to compare I am sure it would be better but this 7 artisans was no slouch. Now I was using both of these lenses on a Sony A7s so I have no idea how the RF pairs with a M camera. I just don't use my M-3, M-5, M4-2 and Hexar RF anymore even though I still have a lot of film in my freezer.

They are from 2 different companies 😄 The 7Artisans 34mm F1.4 is currently only available for pre-order.

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13 hours ago, pippy said:

 

It is, however, very true that each lens has to be carefully calibrated for any one particular body - mine do not perform in exactly the same manner on the 'wrong' body - and so I suspect that the lens you shot with on digital but did not own was nowhere near properly calibrated for the body you used 

IMHO, thats what i think is a criticsm of both 7&TTartisans, which is that its 'user calibrated'. To some this is a positive to fine tune settings to compensate some issue to ones system. However my opinion is the opposite. I would much rather prefer the manufacturer assure QC and than to hand it over to the user. The results therfore are mixed. Sure this cost saving measure than passing the 'buck' onto consumers. Sorry for the gripe lol

I'm not against 7&TT artisan i just think is abit suspect. CV, Leica and Zeiss have excellent QC and i dont see why MiC lens cant do the same. It would promote their brand as part of field of quality lens manufacturers rather than a cheaper alternative or regarded as a inbetween lens as consumers saving to buy a Leica.

Having said that i'd love to try out their new 50 1.4 it looks sweet!

 

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3 hours ago, cboy said:

...To some this is a positive to fine tune settings to compensate some issue to ones system.......I would much rather prefer the manufacturer assure QC and than to hand it over to the user...

I agree. Taking the trouble to ensure absolute calibration between body and lens is, to be perfectly honest, a right royal pain in the butt because 'Close Enough' isn't close enough.

Oddly, though, there was one up-side to this; when I originally bought my pair of 50 f1.1 lenses I was using them on an M8.2 and an M9-P and, as mentioned in my earlier post, each had one particular lens calibrated for each body. In the course of time these bodies made way for an M Monochrom and an M-D Typ-262 and the calibration process was duly undertaken once again. After much head-scratching (neither lens could be calibrated to work perfectly on either body) I eventually discovered - by testing the bodies with various other lenses - that both bodies needed to have their rangefinder cams tweaked fractionally. I hadn't owned either body long (less than a fortnight) and hadn't observed any problems with my other lenses - neither had seen much use at all and, additionally, I rarely shoot wide-open - so I didn't notice anything was awry until I tried to nail focus at f1.1.

The oddest thing was that both these bodies should have been 100% spot-on. One, the M Monochrom, was a newly arrived factory-refurbished item from Wetzlar and the other was, in effect, brand new (actually ex-shop-demo). It just goes to show that we shouldn't take anything for granted. Who knows; perhaps some other users have had a similar RF-cam problem unknowingly?

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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  • 2 weeks later...

No both of the lenses I used are 7Artisans so they should be from the same factory. The difference is the 35mm 1.4 is in a Sony E mount and the 75mm f1.25 is in a M mount. Now both of these lenses were used on the same camera body a Sony A7s. So the results I got should be compatible. The newer 35mm 1.4 that 7Artisans is now coming out with is the same lens as the Sony E mount lens just in a M mount barrel with a rf cam.

 

It gets very confusing between 7Artisans and TT Artisans  as these lenses are manufactured by the same factory under contract to both lens companies.

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The 50/1.1 is a Sonnar formula lens with a rear element very close to the sensor. This lens will perform very differently on an M9 or M Monochrom than it does on a Sony A7.

I have two of these, one for the M9 and the second calibrated for the M Monochrom using a deep yellow filter. The latter sharpens the image up even more as it eliminates some softness due to CA.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My latest attempt with the M10 and 7Artisans 1.1 @1.1. I kind of like it actually. Definitely has its own character.

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On 9/8/2020 at 1:49 PM, maartenmoerman said:

I7artisans 35/2 --> it's sharp, good contrast, only 35mm sonnar (derived) that I know of, but has barrel distortion, so no good for architecture, great for everything else, handling is great, great on both film & digital

I find mine to be very flare-prone and therefore rather low contrast, especially wide open. Not necessarily always a major issue - I kind of like the classic rendering. I find the strong distorsion more disturbing if not corrected but it is fairly easy to manually correct in Lr as it is not complex/wavy.

All in all, a good companion to my Monochrom - I prefer it for b&w shots.

I love the small size, a reason why I am not particularly tempted by the other TT/7 artisans offers. My largest M lens is the 75mm f/A APO ASPH and I find It borderline too large for a rangefinder lens. I've always tried to stick to E46 or smaller lenses.

I that kind of size, alternatives would be Voigtlander 35mm & 28mm Color Skopar (the latter only available used in screw mount, and not very common).

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Re: 50mm f/1.1, I have one. I bought it out of curiosity. I calibrated it at f/1.1 and 5 meters.

At f/1.1 it's ok, yes sort of interesting soft rendering. At 1.4 things get better. But my sample is not really useable beyond 1.4. Extreme focus shift after that, until depth of field catches up, but even closing down (and at large distances) it is still not sharp (to me), e.g., at f/5.6 and 15 meters. Perhaps there is large sample variation. Interesting lens for the price nonetheless, and worth experimenting with at 1.1. 

 

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Well, when I stop the 7Artisans f/1.1 down to about f/5.6 it seems to be Ok.

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9 hours ago, carbon_dragon said:

My latest attempt with the M10 and 7Artisans 1.1 @1.1. I kind of like it actually. Definitely has its own character...

 

3 hours ago, carbon_dragon said:

Well, when I stop the 7Artisans f/1.1 down to about f/5.6 it seems to be Ok...

This - as far as I can gather - is the whole point of the 50mm f1.1 7A lens.

Once properly dialled-in for correct focus wide-open it has a crazy beautiful pseudo-Noctilux rendering but stopped-down past (IMX) f4 it behaves like any other 50mm lens.

But the lens HAS to be properly dialled-in otherwise disappointment will most assuredly be the order of the day....

FWIW I own a pair each of which is mated to its own particular body and the results are unanimously wonderful (content excluded).

Philip.

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13 hours ago, pippy said:

 

This - as far as I can gather - is the whole point of the 50mm f1.1 7A lens.

Once properly dialled-in for correct focus wide-open it has a crazy beautiful pseudo-Noctilux rendering but stopped-down past (IMX) f4 it behaves like any other 50mm lens.

But the lens HAS to be properly dialled-in otherwise disappointment will most assuredly be the order of the day....

FWIW I own a pair each of which is mated to its own particular body and the results are unanimously wonderful (content excluded).

Philip.

Yes. I was lucky because my 7Artisans was dead on with my M10.

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