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Best 7artisans M-mount Lenses?


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Yes, I was reading about it. So, what is the favorite for M shooters, between CV 35 1.4 II MC and the TT Artisan 35 1.4?

Apart the Summilux look of the TTA, if they both are great performer, I think due to the small size, the CV could be the winner. 

 

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12 hours ago, Dennis said:

Yes, I was reading about it. So, what is the favorite for M shooters, between CV 35 1.4 II MC and the TT Artisan 35 1.4?

Apart the Summilux look of the TTA, if they both are great performer, I think due to the small size, the CV could be the winner. 

 

I have the TT 35/1.4 and it's pretty good.  Maybe 85% as good as the Leica 35/1.4 FLE optically, and 95% as good in terms of build.  I realllllly appreciate the ability of the TT to calibrate the focus of the lens myself—Leica should take note!

I think your type of photography would do great with the TT 35/1.4, Dennis.  I don't have the CV but have heard good things about it.

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4 hours ago, onasj said:

I have the TT 35/1.4 and it's pretty good.  Maybe 85% as good as the Leica 35/1.4 FLE optically, and 95% as good in terms of build.  

Considering the price, these are actually excellent numbers.

4 hours ago, onasj said:

I think your type of photography would do great with the TT 35/1.4, Dennis

My lowest f/stop number is usually 2.8. I use such as f/2 or f/1.4 only when there is not enough available light or to do something more artistic, with less context. 

So, I should be fine with my Biogon 35 2.8 in most cases. And to invest $500 for a TT Artisan for the 1.4 cases, it sound fair.

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/22/2020 at 11:53 PM, Ko.Fe. said:

I'm white crow, as they say in Russian, at LUF :)

From my expirince "lasting" has two meanings. One is for how long lens optics will last over time, another is for how lens mechanical parts will withstand amount of use.

How long optics lasts? For sometime with old Leitz, but way to many samples of fog, separation and fungus. Cosiina Zeiss, I'm not aware of any. Cosina Viogtlander...  Shniderits in LTM lenses. In comparison FSU optics have next to none of those issues. This is for optics longevity.

Mechanical longevity.  I had Color Skopar 35 2.5 falling apart on me after less than two years of use. I had Ultron 35 1.7 LTM with same issue. I'm not lens collector, I have only few and use it. From users like me, I knew about Zeiss wobble. Zeiss even have it or has in price list, something like 300 usd to "fix" it.

I can't say anything about MiC lenses. First of all they are not long enough on the market, in real amount of use to have enough data, reviews. Thier 35/2 has way too much of barrel distortions comparing to any other 35/2. 50 1.1 makes sense. But rest of the lenses..I think they are all blocking VF. And it is not something I want. Every lens which was blocking VF, I sold. I'm not GW,  by all means.

Fast lenses lost thier original meaning, IMO, they used to be for low ISO film, now they are for bokeh photographers. Something in the middle in focus, rest is bokeh. I'm not into it. To me every part of the frame must be visible. I'm not bokeh observer, but moment taker. And I want to see it all in VF at the moment I'm taking it. MiC lenses in this thread are for bokeh hunters, IMO. I'd rather deal with funky Nokton 35 1.4. Because it is not blocking VF and it is not only not heavy brick on my Ms, but it isn't too heavy on my pocket.

I just watched Leica blog videos on YouTube today. Magnum photographer was saying how it took him years before he was able to buy Leica, btw....

 

 

 

I would have not believed you until I saw a video on YouTube from "RedDotForum" who is apparently a dealer somewhere who do 2 hour video podcasts on various Leica topics. I just watched their Leica Monochrom one where they talked about all three generations of cameras. With the M8 and M9 the minimum apertures still very much have their meaning. In my M10 though, that has good enough low ISO performance so that I actually can, for the first time, take pictures at smaller apertures and compensate for it with higher ISO. With the monochrome leicas, this rises to a truly ridiculous level such that you're very much right that minimum aperture is largely irrelevant (except for narrow depth of field and Bokeh). The idea of 10000 iso or 25000 iso (or even 100000 iso) is a truly mind blowing concept to me who grew up shooting Velvia (still have some in the freezer I think). 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just took delivery of the 7 Artisans 50/1.1 Chrome. It's a beautiful lens, not quite the equal of my 50/2 Summicron (pre APO) but very nice looking and working. I tested it with my M10 and the Visoflex 020 to see if it was properly sync'd with my rangefinder and it seemed right on (which was great since I was a little reluctant to use their provided screwdriver to adjust it). Can't stray too far from home yet, but maybe in a month when the heat abates, I might try some cautious (people avoiding) walks in the local state park. Anyway, clearly, it's not a Leica quality lens in optical performance but it's really not bad at all, pretty good for under $400. Really a razor thin focus. I'm looking forward to using it to get some different types of "close" landscape shots.

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»There are always alternatives« -- Spock, The Galileo Seven, Stardate 2822.3, Episode 14

I am pretty sure that I do not support state-controlled companies like 7artisans right now. Their products are tempting but financial support of government organisations helps them to make companies like 7artisans or TTartisans globally competitive or even disruptive. Hiddenfinancial  interventions in a (more or less) free market system is not my understanding of fair play. As Spock says in the beginning , there is always an alternative, i.e. the Carl-Zeiss Biotar 58mm 1:2 - Sharpness & bokeh are both excellent IMHO. The re-use of an old M42 lens contribures to the sustainability of industry in a number of different ways: it reduces waste, preserves non-renewable natural resources - and it costs you around $/€40. How is that?

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15 hours ago, 01maciel said:

»There are always alternatives« -- Spock, The Galileo Seven, Stardate 2822.3, Episode 14

I am pretty sure that I do not support state-controlled companies like 7artisans right now. Their products are tempting but financial support of government organisations helps them to make companies like 7artisans or TTartisans globally competitive or even disruptive. Hiddenfinancial  interventions in a (more or less) free market system is not my understanding of fair play. As Spock says in the beginning , there is always an alternative, i.e. the Carl-Zeiss Biotar 58mm 1:2 - Sharpness & bokeh are both excellent IMHO. The re-use of an old M42 lens contribures to the sustainability of industry in a number of different ways: it reduces waste, preserves non-renewable natural resources - and it costs you around $/€40. How is that?

😝

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You pay your taxes don't you? Your government uses your tax money to subsidise companies, create tariffs, invest in foreign countries, to artificially prop up employment schemes, and this is OK? But you hope to put somebody out of work in a third world country just because their company gets government support? You need some prescription lenses, not sunglasses.

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16 hours ago, 01maciel said:

»There are always alternatives« -- Spock, The Galileo Seven, Stardate 2822.3, Episode 14

I am pretty sure that I do not support state-controlled companies like 7artisans right now. Their products are tempting but financial support of government organisations helps them to make companies like 7artisans or TTartisans globally competitive or even disruptive. 😝

 

I am pleased that this rather misguided attitude had not been adopted in the past. Think of all those budding photographers who were introduced to the hobby by companies like VEB Pentacon of The DDR (East Germany), you couldn't get more state controlled than that.

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Yes indeed. These enthusiastic photographer guys were probably quite happy to get into the situation buying photo gear for little money. But in reality a lot of products were sold below the manufacturing costs. Actually, it was a reason for my occasional visits to East Germany: hunting for some photo gear. But unfortunately, I couldn’t get anything of the lenses or Praktika camera stuff- not even behind the counter. Sold out at any time! Long story short: East Germany went bust- hence the hidden financial/government interventions of almost all non-luxury goods (and of course some other reasons which lead to the ‘situation’). But the difference of now and then is that the state and owner of 7artisans couldn’t go bankrupt.

 

BTW, there are some rose coloured glasses for sale on my photo above. Someone?

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This is happening in wristwatches too. That is to say that Chinese manufacturers are trying their hands at manufacturing high quality watches at low prices. I suspect they share the same problems (QC). But I don't feel the need to not buy them because they're made in China. Sure, if there was an actual American watch industry that might be more of a temptation, but most of our industry is gone. So I'm willing to give Chinese industry a try. 

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10 hours ago, 01maciel said:

Alright then, what's your conclusion? Buy cheap and cheapest?

Buy the best for your budget and within your principles, but don't go off on a diatribe suggesting you are superior to everybody else about Communist government interference in lens manufacture while you are yourself promoting buying a second hand Soviet administration lens! How many died in Siberia for not meeting quality control standards!

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Easy and no armchair reasoning please. And no reason to take it all dead serious, did you see the Emojis in my posts? This is the Leica Forum about photography - so be happy with your lenses and spend the amount of money you want to. Speaking of photography: did you see the comparison of Leica and 7artisans lenses on Leica-rumors? It could have been an interesting article.  Leica-rumors is obviously a vendor of 7artisans lenses. 

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I got the 50/1.1 silver just for fun. Paid $250 like new at B&H.
The sample variation in TT and 7artisans line-up is INCREDIBLE. My lens is calibrated and a great copy, but it is definitely optimised for close focus work, up to several meters.
The problem (there always is one with these) is the 50mm frames do not show up on my Leica because of the erratic cut in the lens mount, so the frames are stuck somewhere in-between... A common problem, I read.
Still, the equation CHEAP + FOR LEICA = CAVEAT EMPTOR holds true.

I wonder how these lenses are on the inside... how long their components will last. The Mitakon Speedmaster my buddy got in E mount fell apart inside because the holders of the diafragm blades were plastic.

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I can not understand why anyone wants to buy Chinese products anymore. Politics aside, there is a great and precarious unbalance in the world that the last 6 months have deeply exposed. Cheap comes at a great price, socially, environmentally, financially, politically, detrimentally to our children and theirs.

Of course, everyone is free to make their own minds up about such things but i for one won't buy anything more Chinese unless absolutely necessary.

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Chinese manufacturing (for their own purposes, not a company like Apple who watches them like a hawk) definitely has it's ups and downs. You can get some pretty cool things for very little money but their photography equipment (and watches) haven't managed to actually internalize quality control. You can get a great one or a bad one. And you may be helped by the seller or you might not (if you deal directly with the Chinese manufacturer). My advice is buy from someone reputable (like B&H) and don't pay a LOT for it. There are some more expensive products but I'm holding off for now. I have maybe 5 watches from China and I've had a couple of real stinkers along with a very odd design issue. On the other hand, I did get good (if slow) customer service from one of those stinkers. So don't pay a lot and try it if you want to, but be prepared to get a bad one.

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6 minutes ago, rivi1969 said:

Beautiful shot, I wonder how do you like the image quality at f1.4?

The sharpness definitely gets better at 1.4 and 2.0. It starts to look more like a more "normal" lens. But even at 1.4 it still kind of has the slightly glowing look. I haven't shot that much with it yet though. I think this one was stopped down a little. I can't tell because all the EXIFs say the aperture was at f2.8 (which is kind of weird but the M10 is guessing).

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38 minutes ago, carbon_dragon said:

The sharpness definitely gets better at 1.4 and 2.0. It starts to look more like a more "normal" lens. But even at 1.4 it still kind of has the slightly glowing look. I haven't shot that much with it yet though. I think this one was stopped down a little. I can't tell because all the EXIFs say the aperture was at f2.8 (which is kind of weird but the M10 is guessing).

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Thank you. I been interested in one of these super fast f1.1 for a while, the TTArtisans goes for 850 USD and the Voigtlander 50mm f1.2 for 1000 or so, this is like the best next thing, it looks pretty decent at 1.4! my other option would be the Voigtlander f1.5 which goes for 650, which is sharp wide open... too many options! 

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