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Best 7artisans M-mount Lenses?


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The 28mm f1.4 is outstanding, very sharp wide open, and performs way above it's price. The 35mm f2 is also quite excellent, especially since it can be had for less than $300. Both lenses are better (sharper, contrast, etc) than the 50mm f1.1, and it is quite good. I found the 28 f1.4 the be the best of the bunch.

I recently purchased the TT Artisans 35mm f1.4. Since it's assumed that it's made by the same folks, or at least the same factory, as the 7 Artisans, I thought it would be as good as the 7A lenses. Unfortunately, I found that lens to just not be sharp wide open.

Edited by 84bravo
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Agree the 35 f2 is quite good, but focus can be touchy to adjust. These lenses used ramped cam, which allows the user to adjust the focus to match his camera by rotating the cam a bit and locking it in place. That let me match it quite well to my M10.

However, the ramped cam contacts the follower wheel in the camera differently than a flat cam, and I see some variation in accuracy at different distances. It also doesn’t match my M9 as well, and this is the only lens where I see a difference between the two bodies. The 35 Summarit also uses a ramped cam, but it is fine on both cameras. The finish on the 7-A cam is rougher than the Summarit, but otherwise the fit & finish is very good for the price.

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2 hours ago, TomB_tx said:

The 35 Summarit also uses a ramped cam

Are you sure? You mean the 35/2.4 or the 35/2.5? I have the 35/2.5 and i did not know it has such a focus cam. To my modest knowledge the only Leica lenses with such cams are Summicron-C 40/2 and Elmar-C 90/4 but i may be wrong. Now i've been using those C lenses for 30+ years and i never got the least focus problem with them on M and other cameras. Same with the 7art 35/2 BTW.

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1 hour ago, lct said:

Are you sure? You mean the 35/2.4 or the 35/2.5? I have the 35/2.5 and i did not know it has such a focus cam. To my modest knowledge the only Leica lenses with such cams are Summicron-C 40/2 and Elmar-C 90/4 but i may be wrong. Now i've been using those C lenses for 30+ years and i never got the least focus problem with them on M and other cameras. Same with the 7art 35/2 BTW.

I have the 2.5 versions of the 35 & 50 Summarits, and the cams of both have a clear ramp.

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Actually, many Leica lenses use a small correction ramp ground on the cam to match each lens characteristics (exact focal length). But on the Summarit it is more pronounced, and different between the 50 & 35; likely to allow use of common helical for the cam on both models.

But I realize this is a "hybrid ramp" in that the focus cam on these DOES also move in and out on a helical thread, unlike the CL lenses and the 7-A.

On the CL and 7-A the cam only rotates relative to the mount, and the ramp does all the focus action. As a result they have a steeper ramp to the cam:

I have also used the C 40 & 90 for decades on M bodies without problems. Only with the 7-A 35 does it seem to need matching more closely to each body.

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Interesting thank you. I have not all my lenses with me here but it seems like the focus cam rotates (or not) and moves in and out on regular Leica lenses, whereas it only rotates on my (film) CL lenses and 7art 35/2.

Edited by lct
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1 hour ago, lct said:

Interesting thank you. I have not all my lenses with me here but it seems like the focus cam rotates (or not) and moves in and out on regular Leica lenses, whereas it only rotates on my (film) CL lenses and 7art 35/2.

That's correct. On regular Leica lenses the cam is designed to be nominally flat, just moving in and out on the helical thread as it rotates. Any "ramp" grinding is just fine-tuning to each lens.

Zeiss and VC cams that I have are totally flat, dependent on the helical pitch.

Edited by TomB_tx
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20 hours ago, 84bravo said:

The 28mm f1.4 is outstanding, very sharp wide open, and performs way above it's price. The 35mm f2 is also quite excellent, especially since it can be had for less than $300. Both lenses are better (sharper, contrast, etc) than the 50mm f1.1, and it is quite good. I found the 28 f1.4 the be the best of the bunch.

I recently purchased the TT Artisans 35mm f1.4. Since it's assumed that it's made by the same folks, or at least the same factory, as the 7 Artisans, I thought it would be as good as the 7A lenses. Unfortunately, I found that lens to just not be sharp wide open.

Hmmm going to check out the 28mm f1.4 then :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Meanwhile, I've got four lenses by 7artisans and two by TTArtisan. 

Very concisely (with, if available,  a link to my blog, in German):

7artisans

1.4/28: very well built, pretty big, good sharpness, bokeh OK = recommendable (7/10)

2.0/35: an average built, small and light, sharpness good, bokeh OK = mainly recommendable (6/10)

1.1/50: very well built, kind of heavy, sharpness good wide open, very good whens topped down , bokeh nice sometimes special though, depending on sujet and aperture =  highly recommendable (more examples...) (8/10)

1.25/75: an excellent built, heavy and big, sharpness very high, bokeh very pleasant = absolutely recommendable (9/10)

 

TTArtisan

1.5/21: very well built, sharpness very good when stopped down a little, bokeh rare ;) = recommendable (7/10)

1.4/35: very well built, sharpness very good, bokeh very pleasant mostly, wide open sometimes a tad "swirly" = highly recommendable (8/10)

 

Everything in reference to the price, of course. A set consisting of 21, 28, (2x) 35, 50 and 75 for about €2200,-. Where do you get that otherwise?

Compared to Leica lenses the "Artisans" cannot entirely match, of course. But I didn't expect that.

And we should better write "compared to new models of Leica lenses", because there is no visible performance difference to older versions. My Summicron-M 50 (IV) is not better than the 1.1/50 when compared at the same stop and my Summicron-M 90 (pre Asph.) - one of my favourite leses for portraits - gets some serious competition by the 1.25/75 - the Voigtländer 2.5/75 doesn't get there BTW. The Voigtländer Ultron 2/28 is not better than the 7artisans 1.4/28 and my old Leica-M Elmarit 2.8/21 is no match for the TTArtisan 1.5/21.
 

So, the question really is if - from a neutral perspective - you should go for a new "China" lens or for a used Leica one. Since the "Artisans" that is no longer a question of performance but rather of feeling, taste and personal preference. 

 

 

Edited by LucisPictor
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7 Artisans 50 1,1   F5.6

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TT Artisans 35mm f/1.4 on M-240.

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Interesting analyses and thorough. 
Way I look at it is that if I’ve moved to the M platform I’d rather shoot Leica, Zeiss or Voigtländer. 

I prefer more durable, lasting builds...and personally, if offered a viable option I’d rather not be spending my money on PRC products nowadays.
If economy Is the motive, the Voigtländers are built to superb optical & mechanical standards. 

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I'm white crow, as they say in Russian, at LUF :)

From my expirince "lasting" has two meanings. One is for how long lens optics will last over time, another is for how lens mechanical parts will withstand amount of use.

How long optics lasts? For sometime with old Leitz, but way to many samples of fog, separation and fungus. Cosiina Zeiss, I'm not aware of any. Cosina Viogtlander...  Shniderits in LTM lenses. In comparison FSU optics have next to none of those issues. This is for optics longevity.

Mechanical longevity.  I had Color Skopar 35 2.5 falling apart on me after less than two years of use. I had Ultron 35 1.7 LTM with same issue. I'm not lens collector, I have only few and use it. From users like me, I knew about Zeiss wobble. Zeiss even have it or has in price list, something like 300 usd to "fix" it.

I can't say anything about MiC lenses. First of all they are not long enough on the market, in real amount of use to have enough data, reviews. Thier 35/2 has way too much of barrel distortions comparing to any other 35/2. 50 1.1 makes sense. But rest of the lenses..I think they are all blocking VF. And it is not something I want. Every lens which was blocking VF, I sold. I'm not GW,  by all means.

Fast lenses lost thier original meaning, IMO, they used to be for low ISO film, now they are for bokeh photographers. Something in the middle in focus, rest is bokeh. I'm not into it. To me every part of the frame must be visible. I'm not bokeh observer, but moment taker. And I want to see it all in VF at the moment I'm taking it. MiC lenses in this thread are for bokeh hunters, IMO. I'd rather deal with funky Nokton 35 1.4. Because it is not blocking VF and it is not only not heavy brick on my Ms, but it isn't too heavy on my pocket.

I just watched Leica blog videos on YouTube today. Magnum photographer was saying how it took him years before he was able to buy Leica, btw....

 

 

 

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Ko.Fe.:

But rest of the lenses..I think they are all blocking VF. And it is not something I want. Every lens which was blocking VF, I sold.

VF blocking is something that I hear often when people talk about the rather big lenses. I think we have to differenciate there.
That might be a point for the wide angle lenses, but for the 75mm it's not a problem at all, since it does not block the 75mm frame.

I can understand that argument, it's just never been an issue for me. The blocked part is not too big and doesn't bother me even with wide angle lenses.
With a 21mm you would need an external finder (or liveview) anyway.

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6 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

To me every part of the frame must be visible. I'm not bokeh observer, but moment taker. And I want to see it all in VF at the moment I'm taking it.......IMO. I'd rather deal with funky Nokton 35 1.4. Because it is not blocking VF and it is not only not heavy brick on my Ms, but it isn't too heavy on my pocket...

I pretty much feel the same way as Ko.Fe.

I don't particularly need super-fast lenses and I like a clear view where possible so my ethos, as a general rule, is Small and Sharp rather than Big with Bokeh.

Having said that I did buy a pair of the 7A 50mm f1.1 lenses just after they first came out and once they were calibrated, each to one particular body (they don't work on the 'wrong' body), I have to say I do love the way they render oof stuff but it's not a trick I like to overplay. I also bought one of the 75mm f1.25 lenses as soon as it came out but it was absolutely impossible to adjust for both near- and far-focus and at all apertures - and I mean it was WAY out; not just a little bit - so it was returned. I see that many here have the same lens and are happy with their examples so perhaps mine was just a duffer. Perhaps I should try again?

On the subject of Voigtlanders; I was interested in the (original version) 35mm f1.4 but was put off by its pronounced barrel distortion. I picked the 40mm f1.4 instead and love it. My reasoning was that by the time I had corrected the 35's distortion and cropped the image I would effectively retain almost exactly the same area as that snapped by the 40mm (which has no such distortion to speak of) in the first place.

Philip.

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3 hours ago, pippy said:

I pretty much feel the same way as Ko.Fe.

I don't particularly need super-fast lenses and I like a clear view where possible so my ethos, as a general rule, is Small and Sharp rather than Big with Bokeh.

Having said that I did buy a pair of the 7A 50mm f1.1 lenses just after they first came out and once they were calibrated, each to one particular body (they don't work on the 'wrong' body), I have to say I do love the way they render oof stuff but it's not a trick I like to overplay. I also bought one of the 75mm f1.25 lenses as soon as it came out but it was absolutely impossible to adjust for both near- and far-focus and at all apertures - and I mean it was WAY out; not just a little bit - so it was returned. I see that many here have the same lens and are happy with their examples so perhaps mine was just a duffer. Perhaps I should try again?

On the subject of Voigtlanders; I was interested in the (original version) 35mm f1.4 but was put off by its pronounced barrel distortion. I picked the 40mm f1.4 instead and love it. My reasoning was that by the time I had corrected the 35's distortion and cropped the image I would effectively retain almost exactly the same area as that snapped by the 40mm (which has no such distortion to speak of) in the first place.

Philip.

35 1.4 II VM, with Lux profile enabled and not in LR.

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb jdlaing:

Too soft.

Check this one out. Also too soft?

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