Q2 35mm Crop Mode vs. 35 Summicron M

[k2kv]

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Very true...

This 28mm is not nor will it ever be a 35mm Summicron. If you see the world in 35mm, then by all means, do not buy a Q2! But I'm not sure it's a compromise. I would rather call it a "trade off." Those who choose to make the Q2 their EDC may simply prefer to not lug around an additional bag filled with a variety of primes (I've done it). And, then, when the "moment" arrives, they will simply take the shot, knowing that they are basically "covered" with superb 47MP FF crop options. Perfect? Maybe. Maybe not.

Journalists often have multiple cameras at the ready, and studio pros have lots of time to set up, so having such options may put them a bit outside of this discussion.

But, those street/travel shooters who must go "purist," will first have to stop, open their bag, locate the correct lens, take the existing optic off their SL or M, replace it with the newly-retrieved one and by then, that moment will likely have passed. Each approach has its advantages, each its own liabilities.

I don't believe anyone really thinks there is true equivalency here. Each choice presents its own limitations; each offers its own solutions.

We simply trade one challenge for another...

 

On 1/11/2022 at 11:24 AM, Einst_Stein said:

Q2 cropped to 35mm equivalent in now way matching the look of true 35mm summicron SL or M on SL or M. Any other expectation is simply unrealistic. 

Whether you will like or accept the cropped Q2 is another story. Admit it, it is a compromise.

 

[KateStarr]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:00 PM, LondonL said:

I found this thread fascinating. 

Do many of you use and shoot in the 35mm crop mode regularly?

I use the 35mm crop mode almost exclusively. And here's why (without addressing image quality or bokeh or anything like that).

First, while I love my Q2 (and Q2M), I prefer 35mm to 28mm for 95% of what I do. Having the 35mm crop lines superimposed on a 28mm image allows me to see what is just outside the frame, like the framelines on an M. I always shoot in DNG, so if I want to use the full 28mm perspective, I can just take the picture (even with the 35mm crop mode engaged) and remove the crop in LR after the fact. Also, shooting in the 35mm crop mode, while still maintaining the full raw file, allows me to make small adjustments to my composition in post if need be (I can straighten a horizon without losing info, for example). As someone who, while editing, often wishes I included a little more of this cloud or that tree, I have found that to be really helpful.

I thought the crop modes would feel like a gimmick - and honestly 50 and 75 kinda do - but I absolutely love having the 35mm framelines on my Q2s.

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[nicci78]

Let's keep it simple. 

The Q/Q2 is not similar as M10/M10-R + Summilux-M/Summicron-M 28mm. One is a mirrorless fixed lens the other a rangefinder with interchangeable lens.

So Q2 cropped at 35mm is not equivalent to M10 + Summicron-M 35mm. 

But Q2 35mm crop will be similar to a full frame mirrorless with 35mm f/2. 

So if you want the rangefinder experience, buy the Summicron-M on an M. 

 

I challenged myself to shoot my Q2 only in 35mm crop mode for 6 months. And it works superbly. 

I did the same with 50mm crop mode and compare it with my CL + Summilux-TL 35mm. Guess what ? Summilux-TL is now gone. Because the difference is quite thin (thinner depth of field, but that's all) so why haul a big lens for tiny advantages. 

 

I even found a way to use 75mm crop mode efficiently : by setting the right dial Fn button as a magnification button. That way it gives me around 75mm field of view in full view, very nice for composition. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by nicci78

[acg69]

5 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Let's keep it simple. 

The Q/Q2 is not similar as M10/M10-R + Summilux-M/Summicron-M 28mm. One is a mirrorless fixed lens the other a rangefinder with interchangeable lens.

So Q2 cropped at 35mm is not equivalent to M10 + Summicron-M 35mm. 

But Q2 35mm crop will be similar to a full frame mirrorless with 35mm f/2. 

So if you want the rangefinder experience, buy the Summicron-M on an M. 

 

I challenged myself to shoot my Q2 only in 35mm crop mode for 6 months. And it works superbly. 

I did the same with 50mm crop mode and compare it with my CL + Summilux-TL 35mm. Guess what ? Summilux-TL is now gone. Because the difference is quite thin (thinner depth of field, but that's all) so why haul a big lens for tiny advantages. 

 

I even found a way to use 75mm crop mode efficiently : by setting the right dial Fn button as a magnification button. That way it gives me around 75mm field of view in full view, very nice for composition. 

I agree that the 35mm is like a ff 35mm @ f/2 and it is enough for me; now if only the image would fill the frame...:/

Also, could you please elaborate on the last sentence (75mm and magnification)? Are you talking about manual focusing? 

[nicci78]

Initially magnified view is made for manual focusing. But I am using it to get 75mm full view instead. 

Frame with magnified view. 
Then half press for AF and exiting magnified view
Full press to shoot. 
 

 

 

[acg69]

1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Initially magnified view is made for manual focusing. But I am using it to get 75mm full view instead. 

Frame with magnified view. 
Then half press for AF and exiting magnified view
Full press to shoot. 
 

 

 

Got it; good thinking there! Thanks!

[Dr. G]

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I use crop mode on the Q2M being that I like 35mm.  Very happy with the results, and that’s coming from someone who owns the 35mm Summicron-SL as well.

I wish the 1/3 grid lines would rescale with the frame lines when crop mode is activated, though.

[kirkmc]

On 1/21/2022 at 8:37 AM, nicci78 said:

I challenged myself to shoot my Q2 only in 35mm crop mode for 6 months. And it works superbly.

 

I tried this recently a while ago. What I like about it is that I can see the info about and below the frame. One thing I dislike on the Q2 is that all the info is on a black background, rather than transparent, such as on my Fujifilm cameras. There are some things I like to see, such as shutter speed and ISO (I shoot in aperture priority, with auto ISO, so it's good to know when I'm hitting the limit). 

[nicci78]

Just use the EVF being 4:3 instead of 3:2 like the LCD. You can always see the shooting informations and the full 28mm frame. 

[kirkmc]

19 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Just use the EVF being 4:3 instead of 3:2 like the LCD. You can always see the shooting informations and the full 28mm frame. 

I don't see a setting for that; there's nothing in the manual about it either. 

[nicci78]

No setting required. Just different physical spec. 
Q2 EVF has 4:3 aspect ratio. So it can display the full 24x36 image without any shooting information overlay. Those will be displayed upon and below the full image. 
 

Q2 LCD sadly is only 3:2 aspect ratio. 24x36 being also 3:2, when you display shooting informations it has to hide part of the image captured. Then you are only seeing the 16:9 part. 
 

So shooting mostly with EVF will solve permanently your issue with information overlay. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by nicci78

[acg69]

10 hours ago, Dr. G said:

I use crop mode on the Q2M being that I like 35mm.  Very happy with the results, and that’s coming from someone who owns the 35mm Summicron-SL as well.

I wish the 1/3 grid lines would rescale with the frame lines when crop mode is activated, though.

This is yet another reason the digital zoom implementation is bad on the Q2. What you are saying would be immediately resolved if the 35, 50 and 75 FoV would fill the frame, as is the case with every other non-rangefinder camera...

[kobra]

"This is yet another reason the digital zoom implementation is bad on the Q2..."

The implementation is not "bad", rather it is entirely a matter of opinion. I, like others, like seeing the framelines and being able to see outside the frame. Obviously you and others do not. Given these differing opinions, it seems like it would be a good idea for a future firmware update to provide an option to switch between the "framelines mode" and "full screen mode". 

Brad

[Daniel C.1975]

Hello, 

 

just to pick it up again. I have the feeling that a lot of stuff has been mixed up, partly with huge confidence but a certain lack of knowledge regarding optical engineering. 

One point that has been made: A 28mm lens can never be a 35 or 50 or whatever mm lens. Sorry to say, but this statement is not covering the whole truth, not at all. 

 

The focal length ist just a number without any implication about the final picture. 

The focal length combined with a certain sensor size gives us the angle of view - which is the relevant part. Due to experience our brain is hardwired to this angle of view combined with a 35mm Sensor to a certain focal length. That's all. 

As a result a cropped picture, e.g. 35mm crop from a 28mm lens on the Q2, will give the exact same geometrical distortion and picture impression as a 35mm lens on full-frame would do. Of course, if distance to the object etc. as been adjusted accordingly to adjust the framing.

Of course there is the caviat of the different depth of field equivalence with the same aperture opening.

Meaning: A 28mm f2 lens does have an aperture opening of 14mm (this is defining the depth of field). If I now crop to 35mm, I still have an opening of 14mm. But with the changed angle of view by cropping to 35mm (to stay simple I stick to mm equivalences and not degrees) I have an equivalent aperture value of f2.5 (35mm/14mm), which is effecting the shown depth of field. To be clear, it is the same depth of field as with 28mm at f2, we just cropped the picture so the perception is the same as a 35mm f2.5 lens would show.

That's just math and engineering and there is really not much for interpretation. 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Daniel C.1975

[sfphoto]

vor 43 Minuten schrieb Daniel C.1975:

Of course, if distance to the object etc. as been adjusted accordingly to adjust the framing.

I agree with everything you wrote, but I do not understand the quoted statement. The distance to the object is what matters when people talk about perspective, distortion, compression etc. So you probably mean: The 35mm crop on the Q2 looks the same as a 35mm/2.5 lens on a full frame camera (except for the change in number of pixels) as long as the distance to the object does not change. 

When people say "I do not like the look of 28mm. I prefer a 35mm." They actually mean that they do not like the look of a person when they get too close. So, just turn on the 35mm frame lines and take a step back. Voila!

Here is a nice video that explains it well:
https://fstoppers.com/architecture/how-lens-compression-and-perspective-distortion-work-251737

[Daniel C.1975]

vor einer Stunde schrieb sfphoto:

I agree with everything you wrote, but I do not understand the quoted statement. The distance to the object is what matters when people talk about perspective, distortion, compression etc. So you probably mean: The 35mm crop on the Q2 looks the same as a 35mm/2.5 lens on a full frame camera (except for the change in number of pixels) as long as the distance to the object does not change. 

When people say "I do not like the look of 28mm. I prefer a 35mm." They actually mean that they do not like the look of a person when they get too close. So, just turn on the 35mm frame lines and take a step back. Voila!

Here is a nice video that explains it well:
https://fstoppers.com/architecture/how-lens-compression-and-perspective-distortion-work-251737

100% agree and thanks for putting it more clearly. I meant exactly what you've put into better words.

I was referring to e.g. a format filling face in 28mm vs. the format filling face in the 35mm crop. 

Remark: I should not start an answer in a 5 minute brake and finalize it hastily in another 5 minute brake some hours later

Edited January 12, 2023 by Daniel C.1975

[Q2ER]

Nice thread. It’s fun when CL + 23mm cron TL users and x100v users say why buy a Q2 if you like 35mm? Your much better of with a aps-c 35mm then cropping that Q2 28mm because it will always  look like a 28mm.