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Summilux-R 80/1.4 vs Summicron-R 90/2 direct comparison with samples?

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Good morning, I have been part of this forum forum a short time, I'm Italian, I'm 43, I shoot from 25 years, my English isn't very good...... I read a lot on this forum, but I've written little. My equipment is composed of Nikon D810, Zeiss Distagon 21mm f/2.8 ZF.2, Zeiss Distagon 28/2 ZF.2,  Leica Elmarit-R 28/2.8 I, Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4 ZF.2, Zeiss Milvus 50/1.4 ZF.2, Zeiss Makro-Planar 50/2 ZF, Leica Summicron-R 50/2 II, Zeiss Planar 85/1.4 ZF.2, Leica Elmarit-R 90/2.8 I, Leica Summicron-R 90/2 I, Zeiss Makro-Planar 100/2 ZF.2, Leica Elmarit-R 135/2.8 I, Leica Elmarit-R 180/2.8 I. I have sold some Nikkor and Zeiss lenses to buy Leica R lenses, because I didn't like the Nikkor's and Zeiss's performance about colours, color rendering for some types of photos: they can't return the result which I had seen before shooting in my mind. Zeiss and Leica coexist in my outfit, because I shoot different kinds of photos and I want a different kind of result depending of the subject, any time. I buy for my outfit particular, a precise lens, because I want a precise kind of result and each (mostly old) lens has got its own personality. I chose to put Leica next to Zeiss, in fact they coexist in my equipment, because I didn't like Zeiss lenses' result for some kinds of shoots. When I started using Leica, I managed to get what I wanted in some untype types, results never achieved with Nikon and Zeiss, especially regarding portraits, colors, chromatic shades, out of focus, magic, warm rendering, three-dimensional, separation of the subject, reading in the shadows. For examples, in portraits, where Zeiss lenses were too contrasted, not very respectful of the complexion skin, not very delicate: Leica Elmarit-R 90/2.8 I, for example, is a wonderful, great, fantastic lens for portraits:  it is clear, but not intrusive, respectful, not contrasted, delicate with the skin, it gives real colors, natural colors, three-dimensionality and reads shadows well. Zeiss Planar 85/1.4 ZF.2 and Makro-Planar 100/2 are great lenses, but very different........, Zeiss and Leica are two different schools, two different worlds, two different  conceptions. You know it. With Leica Elmarit-R I have found my portrait lens, after a long travel through Nikon AF-D 85/1.4, Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s, Nikon AF-D 105/2 Defocus Control, Nikon AF-D 135/2 Defocus Control, Zeiss Planar 85/1.4, Zeiss Makro-Planar 100/2, Zeiss APO-Sonnar 135/2 ZF.2, which are excellent lenses, but different lenses.......... I have replaced Zeiss Distagon 28/2 ZF.2 and Nikon 28/2 AI with Leica Elmarit-R 28/2.8 I for set portraits, background portraits (is it right?) and  close distance focus, because Zeiss 28/2 wasn't sharp in that conditions, its bokeh was less pleasant, more nervous, the complexion of incarnate was less pleasant and I love Leica colour and 3D rendering! Leica Elmarit-R 135/2.8 I is light years better than Nikon AF-D 135/2 Defocus Control for colours, warm tone, bokeh, separation of subjects, plans, 3d effects, it is fantastic!!!!! Zeiss APO-Sonnar 135/2 is fantastic, but only for landscapes, also if its bokeh is very, very good. Elmarit-R 180/2.8 is another fantastic lens: I preferred its first version, after  trying the second version, because the first is less contrasted, although less sharp; it's also more delicates for the colour rendering, tones. 

This is the introduction. I entered in my equipment also Leica Summicron-R 90/2 I (not APO), which I had understood to be much more delicate for portraits, very, very soft at wide apertures. I have tried it and it's very different from Leica Elmarit-R 90/2.8: I prefer Elmarit-R 90/2.8 for portraits. I also entered in my equipment Leica Summicron-R 90/2, because I search sometimes for dreamlike, magical atmosphere, suspended in time atmosphere, veiled, for example when I shoot to old abandoned country houses, castles, fortresses, old abandoned ruins, old abandoned villages. Before I used for this shoots Zeiss Planar 85/1.4 and Nikon 105/2.5 AI-s, but I wasn't satisfied with the result: too cold and little dreamlike, first of all with Zeiss, also at f/1.4. When I have bought and I have tried Leica Summicron-R 90/2 I, I have compared directly it (at f/2) with the Zeiss Planar 85/1.4 (at f/1.4) for old abandoned country houses and i saw that Leica is much better: I have noticed that Summicron-R 90/2 is sharp for the subject in focus, like the Planar 85/1.4 (maybe even slightly more), but there is a great difference in the bokeh: Planar is sharp also near, back and front the subject in focus, while Summicron-R 90/2 blurs very quickly, although the Summicron was at f / 2 and the Planar at f / 1.4 !! In addition, the colors of the Summicron are warmer and more magical: I was looking for this type of rendering, therefore I am very satisfied, for this type of shots, of the SUmmicron-R 90/2 I, but I am looking for something even more accentuated for the atmosphere dreamlike focus, even softer, more delicate, imaginative. Precisely for this reason I am moving towards the Leica Summilux-R 80 / 1.4 and with this discussion I would like to ask you: the Summilux-R 80 / 1.4 retains the same type of focus as the Summicron-R 90/2, indeed it accentuates it, it is even more beautiful, more dreamlike, also thanks to the f / 1.4? Is the aresa similar, but more accentuated in Summilux-R? Did you show me some pictures of the direct comparison between Summicron-R 90/2 and Summilux-r 90/2 at full aperture, please? Garzie at all and sorry for the length of the introduction!

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Posted (edited)

Hello Jedi,

I don't have side by side pictures to show which is not relevant anyway.

Your pictures taking style as described is not common but very demanding ( = very hard to please ! ).

My only advice from decades of user of Summilux-M 1.4/75mm and R 1.4/80 along with Summicron-R or M 90mm (those 90mm sold long ago),

just try this magic Summilux 80mm for a while then judge by yourself.

I invite you to discover some of the 80mm character (depending on subject) in this 75mm Summilux-M thread

which has the same optical cell as the 80mm R " invented" in Canada by the Dr. Mandler ...

 

Arnaud

 

PS ...

Have a look here :

 

Edited by a.noctilux

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15 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Hello Jedi,

I don't have side by side pictures to show which is not relevant anyway.

Your pictures taking style as described is not common but very demanding ( = very hard to please ! ).

My only advice from decades of user of Summilux-M 1.4/75mm and R 1.4/80 along with Summicron-R or M 90mm (those 90mm sold long ago),

just try this magic Summilux 80mm for a while then judge by yourself.

I invite you to discover some of the 80mm character (depending on subject) in this 75mm Summilux-M thread

which has the same optical cell as the 80mm R " invented" in Canada by the Dr. Mandler ...

 

Arnaud

 

PS ...

Have a look here :

 

Hello, Arnaud, thank you for your valuable advice!!!! It: "I invite you to discover some of the 80mm character (depending on subject) in this 75mm Summilux-M thread

which has the same optical cell as the 80mm R " invented" in Canada by the Dr. Mandler ...": I didn't know about the same optical cell! Unfortunately I have not yet had the opportunity to try the 80 / 1.4 ...... I'm going to read it right away!!!! Thank you!!

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In Wiki, 75mm

to compare to

Summilux-R 1.4/80mm

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Posted (edited)

Arnaud, I could not resist and I immediately went to look at the photos !!! ...... now I start reading the discussion !! From a first impression it seems to me that the Summilux-R 80 / 1.4 (although there is the 75 M, but it is the same thing) actually has the same tone as the Summicron-R 90/2, but much more accentuated, much softer and deslicate in the colors. The bokeh is crazy! I don't mind the cat's eye bokeh. From the examples it would seem just what I'm looking for, but I wouldn't use it in portraits, I think, because it's too soft, for portraits I would continue to use the elmarit-R 90 / 2.8 at least in most cases, depending on what I want to achieve .

Edited by Guest

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You are right,

each lens has strong "fields" (characters, weight, etc.) to be learned to use them at best.

I use along the two Summilux 75/80 for long so my opinion is ( to be "adjusted" to your need of course ), the R 80mm is a bit "better choice" than the M 75mm.

Handling of 80mm is more balanced on SLR than on Leica M + 75 which has "small view" in 75mm field with ... those distracting 50 framelines.

With "rounder" aperture, the 80mm can be used with less "ninja stars" of the 75mm at f/2.8 to f/4 .

 

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Posted (edited)

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At f2 or f2.8 the Summilux-R 80mm is acceptably sharp in the centre and yet still maintains most of the soft bokeh.  IMO at f1.4 it is too soft for anything useful.  YMMV of course.

As many others have noted, from f5.6 onwards it is sharp everywhere.

Therefore a good dual purpose lens.  The only downside is the bulk and weight, along with the required adapter to use on a mirror-less digital body.

Edited by AZN

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Posted (edited)

Hello Jedi,

to reach a  dreamy look on your 90 Summicron R (series VII or e55 ?),  you may try to add a filter, this is  commonly used in cinematography.

I'd suggest the Tiffen Black Promist 1/8 which is affordable and available in e55:

https://www.amazon.fr/Tiffen-55BPM18-Filtre-Black-Pro-Mist/dp/B001U3ZY20/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=black+promist+1%2F8&qid=1584902806&sr=8-4

Best, JM.

Edited by JMF

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Thank you, a.noctilux and AZN. Is bokeh of Summilux-R 80/1.4 smoother and softer, is it true? From the link of a.noctilux I can see that it is excellent.........

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, JMF said:

Hello Jedi,

to reach a  dreamy look on your 90 Summicron R (series VII or e55 ?),  you may try to add a filter, this is  commonly used in cinematography.

I'd suggest the Tiffen Black Promist 1/8 which is affordable and available in e55:

https://www.amazon.fr/Tiffen-55BPM18-Filtre-Black-Pro-Mist/dp/B001U3ZY20/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=black+promist+1%2F8&qid=1584902806&sr=8-4

Best, JM.

Series VII. I would have a very lens "dreamer", not add a filter........ The 80/1.4 Summilux-R seems to be better for bokeh than Summicron-R 90/2

Edited by Guest

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1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Series VII

OK, might be trickier to find a suitable filter.

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In have found these two samples: The 80/1.4 lux-R is fantastic!! My question is: Summicron-R 90/2 I's bokeh is better (smoother, sfoter, dreamer)? 

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I can't try Summilux-R 80/1.4, I have got only the cron-R 90/2..........

 

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2 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I can't try Summilux-R 80/1.4, I have got only the cron-R 90/2..........

 

Remember online photo examples might have been modified in post .

 

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5 minutes ago, JMF said:

Remember online photo examples might have been modified in post .

 

Ok......... What do you think about the differences in bokeh between the two lenses? Has anyone else used both? Would you change the Summicron-R 90/2 with the Summilux-R 80 / 1.4 in my place, considering my needs?

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49 minutes ago, AZN said:

At f2 or f2.8 the Summilux-R 80mm is acceptably sharp in the centre and yet still maintains most of the soft bokeh.  IMO at f1.4 it is too soft for anything useful.  YMMV of course.

As many others have noted, from f5.6 onwards it is sharp everywhere.

Therefore a good dual purpose lens.  The only downside is the bulk and weight, along with the required adapter to use on a mirror-less digital body.

I know that Summicron-R 90/2 is sharp enough at f/2, I would a lens with better bokeh but the same sharpness, not less, than the Summicron-R 90/2........, the only choice is the Summilux-R 80/1.4. The Summicron-R 90/2 APO is too expensive and I don't think if it would be a better choice.......

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Posted (edited)

The guys are correct. The Lux 80 is the way to go with the schizo render wide open and stopped down.

It is a hate and love affair with the Lux 80 and fortunately on this thread is all about love.

I do not posses a Cron 90 but only the Lux 80 and a couple of the 90 APO and I use both for portraits depending whether it is artistic with the Lux 80 or commercial with the 90 APO.

Probably your decision has been made now.

Enjoy.

 

 

Edited by Alon

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2 minutes ago, Alon said:

The guys are correct. The Lux 80 is the way to go with the schizo render wide open and stopped down.

It is a hate and love affair with the Lux 80 and fortunately on this thread is all about love.

I do not posses a Cron 90 but only the Lux 80 and the 90 APO and I use both for portraits depending whether it is artistic with the Lux 80 or commercial with the 90 APO.

Probably your decision is now made..

Enjoy.

 

 

Ok, I understood. About sharpness, instead, how the Summilux-R 80/1.4 is sharp at f/1.4 and f/2? Do you confirm that it isn't sharp?

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From the pictures on the web I see that there's sharpness, but, like JMF said, photo examples on web might have been modified in post .

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