Let's have a look at some DNG files from the S3

[Chaemono]

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I have a few DNGs coming now.  I'm starting to like ISO 400 on the S3.  Someone else will figure out if base ISO is closer to it than to ISO 100.  I might check for highlight detail recoverability later.  What Leica got right with the S3 is the colors, IMO. They are deep and accurate without a magenta tint even for the stock profile.  Hence, skin tones are wonderful 'out-of-the-box' and require very little work in post which may end up messing up the rest of the colors.  Skin tones are also wonderful with the X1D, too, but the rest of the colors at times can be a bit over the top with the Hassy, particularly the greens.  This is not the case with the S3.  The S3 colors are a bit more reserved while maintaining that rich MF look and texture, if anyone knows what I'm talking about (😂).  It's not always visible nor does it matter, but I think landscape photographers will appreciate it.  What Leica got wrong seems to be the AF accuracy but I'm not sure, yet.  It could be that the focus points are too big so that one ends up back-focusing.  The funny thing is, mis-focusing occurs more often with the 120 Summarit (the only S lens I have) wide open.  When I stop down to f/4, focus accuracy improves considerably.  I'll show some examples later.

Be careful with these two here because I also changed the calibration of the Adobe Color profile in LR  (the same for both and Vibrance at +10, too).  Also, default NR in LR for S3 ISO 400 files is +20.  I left it that way.  The files look nicer with NR at +20. You'll get the DNGs anyway.

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-JkgxSt/

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SL2 + 90 Summicron-SL DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g148547687-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=yhNNp4N67aXgD9_yUNP6CY73FRKm_GBQP1jhzML7nzE=ISO 100 f/2 @1/1250 sec.

S3 + 120 Summarit-S: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g384588574-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=6HEjzLOvxw3RZrEUksLQGUhmFnp2EyAhjLOLsI1hOZs=ISO 400 f/2.5 @1/3000 sec.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Chaemono

[decurion99]

Very helpful Chaemono. I think here we have a classic case of newer technology in lens design due to mirrorless surpassing the S3 system combo. The spatial rendition is different, but the smaller SL2 file has a higher micro contrast, clearly. Meaning you can get excellent imagery out of SL2 surpassing overall MF resolution but with a 35mm look. IBIS is clear bonus as is F2. Question is whether the "cinematic" look of say a 100 F2 + slightly larger sensor on an S3 is worth the 20k plus. Let us not forget: S lenses are a decade old, while APO SL is cutting edge. Also S3 is clearly aimed at milking dentists, bankers, lawyers, etc. as no real pro uses Leica due to the lack of pro ecosystem. I mean they didn't even bother to do a marketing video. Let's see how many still want to plunk down serious money for this in light of Corona, ie dwindling stock portfolios and uncertain jobs.

I know from someone who knows Dr. Kaufmann that he himself confided that 80% of S users are well off professionals in the second half of life wanting to chase that photography dream, but end up just paying 30k for a system to photograph flowers, kids and dogs. So sales strategy on S is to upsell to M and SL users; IQ wise, difficult to trump what Wetzlar did with the SL plus new lenses. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by decurion99

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[Milan_S]

If anybody is interested I uploaded the dng from a shoot i did when I had the S3 beta version. 

Enclosed you can find my result.

The image was slightly overexposed but the S3 handles it wonderfully and as @Chaemono mentioned the skin tones are gorgeous. 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ni1zsv9nyq589pi/AACzdnYlfXiVnmpdbH8_80SMa?dl=0

Leica S3 Summarit-S 70mm CS ISO 200 f2.8 1/45

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[decurion99]

12 minutes ago, Milan_S said:

If anybody is interested I uploaded the dng from a shoot i did when I had the S3 beta version. 

Enclosed you can find my result.

The image was slightly overexposed but the S3 handles it wonderfully and as @Chaemono mentioned the skin tones are gorgeous. 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ni1zsv9nyq589pi/AACzdnYlfXiVnmpdbH8_80SMa?dl=0

Leica S3 Summarit-S 70mm CS ISO 200 f2.8 1/45

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Thanks so much - do you also have high iso, ie 3200 / 6400?

[Milan_S]

@decurion99 high iso file:

S3 Summicron-S 100mm f2.0 1/250 ISO 3.200 +pushed

DNG file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ui4hh0xnaq1x9qb/L1007336.dng?dl=0

 

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[Chaemono]

What Leica also got right is AWB by the camera IMO.  It's the best I've seen so far. Of course, it's not 100% accurate but can easily be tweaked to get it there.  In this one the S3 focus with the 120 Summarit wide open was pin-point accurate on the lightbulb.  Unfortunately, I mistakenly focused the SL2 with the 90 Summicron-SL on the glass of the lantern.  I won't post the SL2 DNG, therefore, nor a processed version of it.  The link for the S3 DNG is included. 

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-JkgxSt/

SL2 + 90 Summicron-SL as shot

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ISO 100 f/2 @1/2500 sec.

 

S3 + 120 Summarit as shot. DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g10423405-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=60jzUTbijOUfnkfqG2QhA6YetE5Eu-tjzA4flO3R7EA=ISO 200 f/2.5 @1/2000 sec.

Same as above processed

[mgrayson3]

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It's amazing how varied different users' criteria are. A studio portrait photographer cares more about tethering stability than any other difference between the SL2 and the S. File quality is swamped by the annoyance of losing the connection to the computer in the middle of a shoot. For me, picture quality is so high on any of a half dozen systems, that all I care about is the enjoyment of carrying, shooting, and processing. The S system excels at the 2nd and 3rd. A Mamiya 7 II is great on the first two, but terrible on the third (dust!). Hassy X1D lost me on the shooting experience. As I said, it's different for everyone.

Matt 

[Chaemono]

Here is what I meant with focus accuracy improves considerably if the lens is stopped down.  Take this shot with the 120 Summarit at f/2.5 and chances are the focus point will be on the pine needles to the left of the lamp (I have a few misfocused ones).  Stop the lens down, here to f/5.6, and the AF becomes pinpoint accurate.

Less compressed JPEG here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-JkgxSt/

S3 + 120 Summarit processed to taste. DNG download here: https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g110363470-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=V_P3Cfpr7SzZhGeUDTVmSGDwDwpEsahs1X5MeEroEjE=

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ISO 400 f/5.6 @1/1000 sec.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Chaemono

[albireo_double]

3 hours ago, Milan_S said:

If anybody is interested I uploaded the dng from a shoot i did when I had the S3 beta version. 

Enclosed you can find my result.

The image was slightly overexposed but the S3 handles it wonderfully and as @Chaemono mentioned the skin tones are gorgeous. 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ni1zsv9nyq589pi/AACzdnYlfXiVnmpdbH8_80SMa?dl=0

Leica S3 Summarit-S 70mm CS ISO 200 f2.8 1/45

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With due respect and admiration for a lovely picture, do you think that this image shows "amazing skin tones"? On my monitor, the skin looks a bit too orange/yellow, probably as a result of reflections from the red dress and the other reflective elements in the room (not easy to hit the correct white balance with such a mixture of light sources and reflective materials).  It is exactly in situations like this, that I find the skin tone function in Capture One's colour editor so very useful - being able to adjust and unify hue, saturation and lightness of the skin, each separately. I don't doubt that the S3 has great skin tones (my S007 and SL2 both have pretty good skin tones, too) but in my view (i) the skin in this picture does not show it, and (ii) rendering of skin can really be optimised in C1 where the S3 is not supported with a dedicated profile. So I am not convinced yet on this selling point. I am not a denier, I am actually considering buying the S3 and could get one tomorrow if I wanted to but I am still sitting on the fence (watching my stock portfolio and job prospects dwindle, as someone pointed out above). Any other examples of the lovely skin tones? 

Edited March 22, 2020 by albireo_double

[John Smith]

3 hours ago, decurion99 said:

Very helpful Chaemono. I think here we have a classic case of newer technology in lens design due to mirrorless surpassing the S3 system combo. The spatial rendition is different, but the smaller SL2 file has a higher micro contrast, clearly. Meaning you can get excellent imagery out of SL2 surpassing overall MF resolution but with a 35mm look. IBIS is clear bonus as is F2. Question is whether the "cinematic" look of say a 100 F2 + slightly larger sensor on an S3 is worth the 20k plus. Let us not forget: S lenses are a decade old, while APO SL is cutting edge.

IQ wise, difficult to trump what Wetzlar did with the SL plus new lenses. 

Wow, zooming in with C1, there is quite a difference. Chaemono talks about how the SL2 breaks down once you move away from base ISO, but you know there is a big update coming sometime down the road. Hmm, might have to rethink my pre-order.

Edited March 22, 2020 by John Smith

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Minute schrieb John Smith:

Wow, zooming in with C1, there is quite a difference. Hmm, might have to rethink my pre-order.

You may not get it before the Covid-19 pandemic subsides anyway which could be by the end of next year.  So, you have plenty of time to think about it.  😂

[decurion99]

I think the new lens designs possible due to the closer distance to the sensor plane exceed by far the best lenses we had so far. I am always amazed when seeing the APO SL lens images. You can basically zoom in at 200% on a 50 MPX sensor image and feel it has the better acuity than what the very best lens camera body combos of the pre-mirrorless era were capable of at 100%. This is why the SL punches above its weight, actually, and the S shows its age as they basically just slapped a very good sensor in an old body with no other innovation such as IBIS, EVF, faster processing, etc. While the S lenses are great, there are also other great lenses in MF land such as the P1 35, 45 and 150 (new designs) and you can tell vs. SL that they are one generation behind. The primary reason for an S IMHO is the the cinematic look you can get with some special lenses such as the 100 2.0 ... and the S lenses have a special rendering indeed in how they render OOF and especially OOF highlights at close distance from the pictures I have seen. 

The SL system on the other hand for me is an impressive demonstration of Leica's original promise that by controlling all aspects of camera SYSTEM design, ie sensor, lens, in-camera processing (Maestro, color science) you can achieve truly remarkable results if costs are of lesser importance. The APO SL 90mm is a beautiful lens, incredibly sharp edge to edge at F2 and without any chromatic aberrations - but also costs 5k EUR. ... so clearly one pays, but gets a lot. The S system on the other hand is now in that weird space whereby mirrorless would have been better, but Leica atm doesn't have the resources to evolve the larger format system into the mirrorless era. One could only imagine how awesome a mirrorless S with APO S lenses would be.

Edited March 22, 2020 by decurion99

[albireo_double]

I've played with the image of the lady with the Christmas tree in Capture One and managed to get skin tones that are more to my liking than Milan's version shown here. But I will still need to get more examples to be convinced that this is substantially better than S007. 

[Chaemono]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb albireo_double:

But I will still need to get more examples to be convinced that this is substantially better than S007. 

How many examples would you like before you place an order? 

[Chaemono]

I don't have any portraits I can show, but this torch is of similar color as some skin tones.  ISO 400 is much sharper here than ISO 100 and the reason is, they were shot handheld.  It's just easier to get a sharp picture with that monster combo in your hands at 1/1500 sec. than at 1/350 sec. 😁

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-JkgxSt/

S3 + 120 Summarit ISO 100, DNG download here:https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g408944940-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=aJJ5E_qEMBFg9h_n6f0ebYaMOab1mTICxdPtyO7elcY=

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ISO 100 f/2.5 @1/350 sec.

S3 + 120 Summarit ISO 400, DNG download here:https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g171069045-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=BCLhB4RBzkKYgA32ZFN7vFShcY1ndpykOP2Om6Wk1MQ=ISO 400 f/2.5 @1/1500 sec.

Edit: I forgot to add the link to the DNGs.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Chaemono

[albireo_double]

59 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

How many examples would you like before you place an order? 

I don't know, maybe a few taken under different lighting conditions. My plan is to ask the store to lend me a demo unit for a day once the lock-down has gone away. I am surprised that Leica has not prepared any promotion video, any sample photos to download, any comparison between S007 and the S3. The photos shown here could have been shot by either camera; difficult to tell.

Edited March 22, 2020 by albireo_double

[Milan_S]

1 hour ago, albireo_double said:

I've played with the image of the lady with the Christmas tree in Capture One and managed to get skin tones that are more to my liking than Milan's version shown here. But I will still need to get more examples to be convinced that this is substantially better than S007. 

Well to anybody's taste the images can be edited. My work shows always a vintage styled photoshoot and that's what I do i can edit it totally different, but for this image I prefered the yellowish warm vintage christmas colors. In the original DNG file you can go all ways with the S3 file. 

 

 

[decurion99]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

I don't have any portraits I can show, but this torch is of similar color as some skin tones.  ISO 400 is much sharper here than ISO 100 and the reason is, they were shot handheld.  It's just easier to get a sharp picture with that monster combo in your hands at 1/1500 sec. than at 1/350 sec. 😁

Less compressed JPEGs here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-JkgxSt/

S3 + 120 Summarit ISO 100, DNG download here:https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g408944940-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=aJJ5E_qEMBFg9h_n6f0ebYaMOab1mTICxdPtyO7elcY=

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

ISO 100 f/2.5 @1/350 sec.

S3 + 120 Summarit ISO 400, DNG download here:https://cc2032.zenfolio.com/img/g171069045-o750076470.dat?dl=2&tk=BCLhB4RBzkKYgA32ZFN7vFShcY1ndpykOP2Om6Wk1MQ=ISO 400 f/2.5 @1/1500 sec.

Edit: I forgot to add the link to the DNGs.

That looks very promising - very sharp and very low noise. By chance - do you have 800 or 1600 iso?

[decurion99]

6 hours ago, Milan_S said:

@decurion99 high iso file:

S3 Summicron-S 100mm f2.0 1/250 ISO 3.200 +pushed

DNG file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ui4hh0xnaq1x9qb/L1007336.dng?dl=0

 

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Thank you very much! Do you have something at iso 800-1600 or 6400? The 100 is a great lens...

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Hallo,

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[tom0511]

vor 19 Stunden schrieb Milan_S:

for me it's total opposite I prefer the S3 over the SL2, for me the files look more organic more cinematic and provide a more distinguishable look compared to the full frame look of the SL2. 

Also the S3 high ISO performance is way better than the SL2 but the S3 has not IBIS, which I don't need anyways for my kind of work. 

I agree on your first sentence but I dont think the high ISO Performance to be way better. On what base do you come to this conclusion?