Is this dust or oil spot on the sensor? Help Please.

[chevovish]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I recently discovered that the photos from my M10-P all had this weird arc-shaped mark whenever I stop down to f8, regardless of which lens I use. I followed some folk's advice here and took a photo at f16 against a homogenous surface and the mark is clearly visible. 

So my question is that is it just dust, or oil mark? Or could it be worse? I bought the camera less than 1 month ago and have taken around 1000 photos in total. I really hope it is not a hardware issue. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[AndreasG]

Looks like dust, should be no problem to remove with the standard procedures - blow away or wipe off.

[chevovish]

3 minutes ago, AndreasG said:

Looks like dust, should be no problem to remove with the standard procedures - blow away or wipe off.

Thanks. Doesn't dust usually show as a spot in the photo? 

I did open the shutter to take a look at the sensor. But I could not spot any dust particles with my eyes. I did not have an air blower or cleaning kit. The closet thing I have is hair dryer, which is probably not a good idea. 

[brill64]

please don't use a hairdrier to clean your sensor! Use a rubber bulb blower available from your local camera store.

[AndreasG]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb chevovish:

Doesn't dust usually show as a spot in the photo?

That depends on the shape of the particle, in your case it could be a micro fiber or so.

[250swb]

It's a fine hair or fibre. They are often very, very difficult to see when looking at the sensor because it could be almost transparent anyway, and also sitting above the sensor with only a tiny foothold on the surface, it won't be plastered down on the surface. You are photographing the shadow of the dust when you stop the lens down and make a picture against a uniform background, not the dust itself. So with nothing at hand to shift it like a proper blower brush I'd just blow across the sensor, but making sure you don't spit on it, otherwise you may get into a whole nightmare 'There was an Old Woman Who Swallowed a Fly' scenario and you end up needing dynamite.

[chevovish]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

 

8 minutes ago, 250swb said:

It's a fine hair or fibre. They are often very, very difficult to see when looking at the sensor because it could be almost transparent anyway, and also sitting above the sensor with only a tiny foothold on the surface, it won't be plastered down on the surface. You are photographing the shadow of the dust when you stop the lens down and make a picture against a uniform background, not the dust itself. So with nothing at hand to shift it like a proper blower brush I'd just blow across the sensor, but making sure you don't spit on it, otherwise you may get into a whole nightmare 'There was an Old Woman Who Swallowed a Fly' scenario and you end up needing dynamite.

I blowed on the sensor and the spot moved from the left to the center. Much relief. At least I am certain it will be an easy once I get a proper blower. 

[Ouroboros]

Do not blow on the sensor and leave the hairdryer to what it is intended for, you risk making a far worse mess!

An Arctic Butterfly sensor brush is the most effective way to remove loose dust and fibres from the sensor without blowing it around inside the camera.   For sticky deposits such as lubricant residue and pollen etc, use an Eyelead Gel Stick

If all else fails, do a wet clean with Eclipse swabs and cleaning fluid

Edited March 19, 2020 by Ouroboros

[jaapv]

There is nothing wrong with using a proper blower bulb. Personally I prefer the Green Clean vacuum system. as it removes the dust instead of moving it around.

[Gelatino]

jaapv,

Got  the V 3000 Green Clean system too but never used it yet.

How easy and efficient is it compared to wet cleaning, as until now my experience is limited to wet cleaning performed by professional operator?

[Good To Be Retired]

On 3/19/2020 at 2:24 AM, chevovish said:

Dust, unidentifiable fibers (which is what I suspect you are looking at), hair, occasionally oil, pollen, and probably a whole host of other junk is just a fact of life with digital sensors.  Moose Peterson wrote about changing lenses with the camera pointed up and a snowflake landed on the sensor.    If you haven't found any debris yet you are fortunate or just not looking hard enough   It's like dust inside a lens, it WILL occur.

There is an understandable reluctance to remove such trash in a DIY mode, but it's kinda a requisite skill.  It's also not difficult.  If you are capable of following directions and possess basic hand/eye coordination you may proceed with a general level of caution and be pretty much assured of a positive outcome.

Sensor cleaning methods are one of those subjects where there are a wide variety of diverse opinions that can generate pretty debates.  This happens to be the way I do it.  If you prefer a method different from mine then keep up the good work.

• Your first line of defense is a bulb blower.  Order one from pretty much any camera store in the world for a couple of bucks.  Odds are, that's all you'll need.  Don't use a drugstore syringe used with babies, they may contain mold release power left over from manufacturing.  Don't blow on it with your breath, you may get something besides air and create a previously unneeded occasion to learn wet cleaning.
• If that doesn't work, there is probably still a video on Luminous Landscape documenting the author's tour of the Leica factory.  One of the technicians in the factory is shown using some sort of Gell stick to clean a sensor.  I am given to understand it is the brand sold by Pentax, but I can't actually recall where I got that idea.  Personally, I'm not too whoopee on gel sticks, but if the factory likes them I'm prepared to accept they must know what they're doing.
• If the blower doesn't work I go directly to Sensor Swabs and Eclipse, have been doing so since Thom Hogan first wrote on using a PecPad wrapped around the end of a plastic knife from a fast food joint, and haven't ever found a reason to experiment further.  Anybody who's afraid of wet cleaning is missing out a fine proven effective technique.  Could a wet cleaning go south on you?  Sure it can.  If you're enough of a klutz you can break a bowling ball.

There's a ton of other products/methods out there and some of them are probably really good, it's just that blowers and Sensor Swabs are good enough I can't think of any reason to try out other methods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Good To Be Retired

[Peter Kilmister]

There is simpler "Heath Robinson" method that I know @jaapv (who I respect) disapproves of and it does require two people ... but it works.

Camera in room 1 (preferably a bathroom). Body of vacuum cleaner in room 2. Vacuum nozzle in room 1. Cover nozzle of vacuum cleaner with muslin. Close the door to room 1 except for a gap to allow the pipe with the nozzle to enter.

In the adjacent room 2 one's beautiful assistant is ready waiting for commands. 

In room 1, Remove lens. Hold vacuum nozzle over sensor. Shout to assistant to start suction. A burst of 5 seconds and shout to one's beautiful assistant to cease operations.

Replace lens and check for dust. Repeat as necessary.

In essence this exactly the process that is is used in the clean rooms at Wetzlar.

I know this works successfully and that's why I suggest it. You don't need anything else,

[jaapv]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:46 AM, Gelatino said:

jaapv,

Got  the V 3000 Green Clean system too but never used it yet.

How easy and efficient is it compared to wet cleaning, as until now my experience is limited to wet cleaning performed by professional operator?

Different from wet cleaning. The vacuum system removes loose dust - more efficiently than a bulb blower- , the wet clean system is meant for sticky dust that cannot be removed by other means and for the haze that can accumulate over longer periods of time.

[Gelatino]

7 hours ago, Peter Kilmister said:

There is simpler "Heath Robinson" method that I know @jaapv (who I respect) disapproves of and it does require two people ... but it works.

Camera in room 1 (preferably a bathroom). Body of vacuum cleaner in room 2. Vacuum nozzle in room 1. Cover nozzle of vacuum cleaner with muslin. Close the door to room 1 except for a gap to allow the pipe with the nozzle to enter.

In the adjacent room 2 one's beautiful assistant is ready waiting for commands. 

In room 1, Remove lens. Hold vacuum nozzle over sensor. Shout to assistant to start suction. A burst of 5 seconds and shout to one's beautiful assistant to cease operations.

Replace lens and check for dust. Repeat as necessary.

In essence this exactly the process that is is used in the clean rooms at Wetzlar.

I know this works successfully and that's why I suggest it. You don't need anything else,

Are "beautiful" assistants compulsory?

[AndreasG]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Peter Kilmister:

There is simpler "Heath Robinson" method that I know @jaapv (who I respect) disapproves of and it does require two people ... but it works.

Camera in room 1 (preferably a bathroom). Body of vacuum cleaner in room 2. Vacuum nozzle in room 1. Cover nozzle of vacuum cleaner with muslin. Close the door to room 1 except for a gap to allow the pipe with the nozzle to enter.

In the adjacent room 2 one's beautiful assistant is ready waiting for commands. 

In room 1, Remove lens. Hold vacuum nozzle over sensor. Shout to assistant to start suction. A burst of 5 seconds and shout to one's beautiful assistant to cease operations.

Replace lens and check for dust. Repeat as necessary.

In essence this exactly the process that is is used in the clean rooms at Wetzlar.

I know this works successfully and that's why I suggest it. You don't need anything else,

Is it necessary/recommendable to earth the camera body to avoid generation of static charge (which attracts dust) by the air flow?

[Peter Kilmister]

3 hours ago, Gelatino said:

Are "beautiful" assistants compulsory?

Would you prefer beautiful or beastly?

[jaapv]

2 hours ago, AndreasG said:

Is it necessary/recommendable to earth the camera body to avoid generation of static charge (which attracts dust) by the air flow?

Only your assistant's body.

[Peter Kilmister]

1 hour ago, AndreasG said:

Is it necessary/recommendable to earth the camera body to avoid generation of static charge (which attracts dust) by the air flow?

Probably a good idea. I am not a physicist so I don't know. Any thoughts from people who have expertise?

All I can says is that I watched a video from Wetzlar a few months ago where a technician used a vacuum nozzle in a clean room. I don't think earthing was part of the procedure.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[KFo]

Static is pretty tricky stuff to manage. It might be that Wetzlar has ionized air, humidity control, ground straps shoes to floor...  There are a lot of ways to deal with static and dust at an industrial/lab scale.

I would say that trying to ground the camera body to help the cleaning at home might be futile for cleaning, but it could be good for entertainment