24mm The lost lenses of Leica M

[IkarusJohn]

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11 hours ago, jaeger said:

I don't see distortions like some have insisted.   lol

So, did you follow the "illuminating" discussion about the difference between perspective distortion and pin cushion/barrel/moutstache distortion?  The examples posted by William were properly framed and lacked heads in corners etc where you would usually see perspective distortion - only the onion dome church posted first shows some perspective distortion.

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[jaeger]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

So, did you follow the "illuminating" discussion about the difference between perspective distortion and pin cushion/barrel/moutstache distortion?  The examples posted by William were properly framed and lacked heads in corners etc where you would usually see perspective distortion - only the onion dome church posted first shows some perspective distortion.

what distortion?  why do I have to imagine there were some? 

 

[Mexy]

I think there are two reasons for why 24mm is not as preferred as 21mm and 28mm:

24mm VS 28mm: 28mm can offer less expensive, smaller in size lens. Take a look at Elmarit 28/2.8, how tiny it is. Elmar 24/3.8, albeit its one-stop slower aperture, is larger than the Elmarit. Leica only offers 24/1.4 and 24/3.8, the former being too big and expensive and the later being a bit slow. Users always have more options in 28mm. (Even not mention the native 28mm frameline in modern M viewfinders!)

24mm VS 21mm: consider that 35mm are the most common focal length in the M system, 21mm lens will give users a 'big difference' in prospective.

I agree that 24mm is a good perspective, it's wide enough, and not being too much 'surreal look' and exaggerate distortion like 21mm. 

[lct]

5 hours ago, Mexy said:

24mm VS 28mm: 28mm can offer less expensive, smaller in size lens. Take a look at Elmarit 28/2.8, how tiny it is. Elmar 24/3.8, albeit its one-stop slower aperture, is larger than the Elmarit. Leica only offers 24/1.4 and 24/3.8, the former being too big and expensive and the later being a bit slow. Users always have more options in 28mm. (Even not mention the native 28mm frameline in modern M viewfinders!)

+1 and welcome to the forum

[RayD28]

When shooting my DSLR and not needing a long FL I use a 24-70.  Most of my shots are at 24mm.  

[scott kirkpatrick]

On 3/16/2020 at 8:31 PM, Ouroboros said:

 You either like the 24mm angle of view or you don't.

I don't.

I do.  I use it anytime the people density is high and I have to work in tight quarters.  Normally the 24 Elmarit, originally purchased for my M8, goes on an M10 or M10-D with the VF20, but I have also used it on an SL or S!R.  In the latter case, some stopping down is indicated.  It belongs on an M.  I used 21s on a long term project (a building which we eventually moved into, after some years under sonstruction).  I started with  a 21 SX but moved to the 21 SE once it became available and the 21 SX has gotten little use since then.  But I wouldn't use either of the 21s on people.

I'm looking forward to a 24 APO-SC for the SL in a year or two, but I don't have to hold my breath.

[onasj]

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I find the 24/3.8 to be a superb and under-appreciated lens.  It is optically stellar, edge to edge, and very well corrected.  Its major drawback, its slow speed, is ameliorated by a few factors:

1) Most shots taken at 24 mm are landscape and architecture and bustling streets, where the goal is probably not to achieve thin depth of focus, though of course there are some exceptions.

2) The outstanding high ISO performance of current and upcoming M10s (especially the M10 Monochrom) make f/3.8 even in low light totally usable.

For thin depth of focus at a wide but more general focal length, I recommend the 28 Summilux, which I also find superb, for very complementary reasons.

 

[pgk]

14 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

So, did you follow the "illuminating" discussion about the difference between perspective distortion and pin cushion/barrel/moutstache distortion?

The thing is that all 24mm rectilinear lenses produce images with the same perspective as do all 20mm lenses or all 28mm lenses. However, true distortions (cushion/barrel/wavy or moustache) vary depending on the design. So one is 'universal', the other a variable. Using the same description is actually  confusing and the word 'distortion' itself implies a fault, which perspective is not. Nomenclature is relevant when its relevant but all too often lends itself to misuse and confusion.

[IkarusJohn]

4 hours ago, pgk said:

The thing is that all 24mm rectilinear lenses produce images with the same perspective as do all 20mm lenses or all 28mm lenses. However, true distortions (cushion/barrel/wavy or moustache) vary depending on the design. So one is 'universal', the other a variable. Using the same description is actually  confusing and the word 'distortion' itself implies a fault, which perspective is not. Nomenclature is relevant when its relevant but all too often lends itself to misuse and confusion.

That was Jaap's point.  I accept your perspective, but from a semantic perspective I disagree.    I'm not saying that to be picky - if you read reviews of lots of wide angle lenses, you will see references to all number of distortions - some corrected, some not so much.  Tim Ashley used to do very good analyses of lenses using images of a pool house - at least I think it was a pool house ...

The reason I disagree with the technical distinction you're making - that the word "distortion" should only apply to a technical fault with a lens - is that as a mere hobbyist, I don't go looking for technical faults.  I read reviews of the lenses I'm interested in and if I like what I read, I use them.  I don't then futz about whether or not the next lens is better or I should have bought something else.  The 21 SEM came out not long after I bought my 21 Summilux-M, but didn't bother to change.  The Summilux is good enough for my purposes.

But, having owned many wide angle lenses over the last 30 or so years, I know that when using wide lenses I have to be careful.  Used carefully, I get little distortion; but if I get it wrong, the distortion inherent in super-wide angle lenses can be ugly.

I don't think we disagree on the facts, just the use of the term.

Edited March 18, 2020 by IkarusJohn

[luigi bertolotti]

Anyway.. according to the ruomrs / news of discontinuation in another thread. seems that Leica has "killed" the 24 mm focal... 🙄.. fare you well 24 ?  I had an Elmarit asph one... as others, for its match with M8 : sold it when took M240, and , not surprisingly, I have a certain regret of... 😒

[Jeff S]

36 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

Anyway.. according to the ruomrs / news of discontinuation in another thread. seems that Leica has "killed" the 24 mm focal... 🙄.. fare you well 24 ?  

Just for the M, at least current iterations...

https://lhsa.org/2020/03/phase-out-of-select-leica-m-lenses-accessories/

Jeff

[Gregm61]

Glad I already have two of the lenses on that list. My “second” M lens lineup I have to use with my M262 after the 21/35/75/135 is the 18 Super Elmar, 24mm Elmar, Current non-APO 50mm f2 and the pre-APO 90mm f2.

As far as discontinuing the hood for the 24mm f3.8 well, it’s the same hood sold with the 21mm f3.4 Super Elmar.

[mdemeyer]

I only saw the black Summarits being discontinued, but others have reported the silver versions were dropped last fall...

Edited March 19, 2020 by mdemeyer

[onasj]

4 hours ago, mdemeyer said:

I only saw the black Summarits being discontinued, but others have reported the silver versions were dropped last fall...

Yes, that's correct, based on what my Leica dealer has said—silver Summarits were previously discontinued.

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, mdemeyer said:

I only saw the black Summarits being discontinued, but others have reported the silver versions were dropped last fall...

 

9 minutes ago, onasj said:

Yes, that's correct, based on what my Leica dealer has said—silver Summarits were previously discontinued.

https://leicarumors.com/2019/10/28/the-silver-leica-summarit-m-lenses-are-now-discontinued.aspx/

Jeff

[junglialoh]

On 3/17/2020 at 9:52 AM, willeica said:

Some examples of architecture, outdoors and indoors. Taken with an M10 and 24mm Elmar using a Frankenfinder, with some adjustments for perspective in Lightroom

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William

 

Fantastic sharpness and color in good composition

[rsolomon]

Im a fan of the 24 Elmar, its a stellar performer in a number of ways to include size and weight which is mentioned in the thread. Also mentioned is the ability to "get away without the EVF" , which I do on my M240. With the difference in the OVF  on the M10 from  .68 on the m240  vs .73 ? are you still able to "peak the edges" and pretty much get the frame ?

I do own the EVF for my 240, I went for the 24 vs the 21 to give me the option of not using the EVF everything I use the 24

 

 

 

[Dennis]

Very interesting topic.

A 24mm is a great focal length, not so far from the 35 and with less distortion. But once I go down from a 35, I go for a 28 first, then a 21mm. More angle of view, more DOP.

A 24 looks (IMHO) is like a weird choice between a 28 and a 21 .... Like a compromise between the two options. This is what I think, because my photography. I never tried a 24 for Leica, so my idea is based on a general 135mm focal length.

 

Quick question: for the 21 shooters, do you always use an external VF? I can't and don't want shoot without the Thumbs Up grip, I have big hands. Is there a way to combine the grip with a viewfinder? Or do I have to remove the grip if I want to use 21 VF?

Or maybe no VF and just guess the composition, who knows ...

 

 

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[rsolomon]

11 hours ago, Dennis said:

Quick question: for the 21 shooters, do you always use an external VF? I can't and don't want shoot without the Thumbs Up grip, I have big hands. Is there a way to combine the grip with a viewfinder? Or do I have to remove the grip if I want to use 21 VF"

Or maybe no VF and just guess the composition, who knows ...

 

 

This was probably the main driver for me going 24, and never looked back, I find it significantly different than 35, and keeps the kit "small, lite, portable" I happen to have the EVF, but its truly my choice whether to frame exact or simply peak the corners of the OVF. btw the 24 is winner lens and wow is it tack sharp. I know the 21 is much more popular and also a great lens

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by rsolomon

[Dennis]

27 minutes ago, rsolomon said:

I happen to have the EVF, but its truly my choice whether to frame exact or simply peak the corners of the OVF

In my case, when I had the 28mm, I was struggling in my composition because the 28 frames were so close to the edge of the OVF. With the 35mm for example, I can see better my composition without pressing so much my face and eye into the OVF. Said that, when I use a 50 with its frame lines, I enjoy it much better.

So I can't imagine what it looks like with a 24mm without EVF. But I'm a newbie, still learning so many things of the RF world, thanks to all of you 🙏 But coming from SLR and DSLR, there are so many things to think about, at least at the beginning when you embrace it. But once you're free, OMG it's beautiful