S3 Predictions - Live or Die

[Jan1985]

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What is interesting to look at that there are so many different viewpoints about the S3 out there. So many speculations. Some just know at this point that the S-System will die after the S3. And Leica wouldn't be really interested in the S3 anymore and so on.... But the really curious and funny thing about it... None of us just had one of the new FINAL S3's in his hands to work with it, playing with the files and makes practical experience. 

I just know through a friend that there was a big reason why Leica had this delay with the S3. They were really not satisfied with some parts of it. So they put in extra time for improvements. If they were not interested in the S-System they wouldn't have done this. As Mr. Kaufmann said in his interview. There was a really passioned and lively discussion in the S-development department about whether the new S3 should have an OVF or EVF. Lately they favored the OVF. So I guess yes maybe we see the next S camera with an EVF.

But the important thing. First the S3 should become a chance. And I can only imagine that in some weeks we have a quiet different discussion here.

[John McMaster]

Personally I would have been quite happy to keep the beta 😉  I found it an improvement over the S(007) for the way I shoot....

john

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[tom0511]

I fully agree we should give it a chance and see how it works.

[xiaubauu2009]

Don't be like Sigma SD Quattro, a mirrorless body with a flange of an SLR, the body make use of non of the benefit of the mirrorless design, and losses the chance for OVF... so, I am glad S3 kept the OVF and be a unique choice in this smaller MF sector.

[albertknappmd]

I have not yet seen a review that addresses the S3 AF capabilities in low light situations...

Have any of you?

Albert

[davidmknoble]

3 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

What is interesting to look at that there are so many different viewpoints about the S3 out there. So many speculations. Some just know at this point that the S-System will die after the S3. And Leica wouldn't be really interested in the S3 anymore and so on.... But the really curious and funny thing about it... None of us just had one of the new FINAL S3's in his hands to work with it, playing with the files and makes practical experience. 

How true! Whether it is fact or not, my opinion is that the S, SL and M are the top systems of the Leica brand.  In general, with those systems, each new model has at least a few big improvements over the previous model.  The new M10M is the largest leap yet between monochrom models.  The SL2 added megapixels and IBIS.  We know the S3 added megapixels.  I for one love the colors and rendition of the CMOS S007, so we know we can expect at least the same in the S3.  Like the Noctilux lenses, some will pay, some will not.  Some will wait for a used lens to show up.  The S3 will be no different.

I am excited about the next few months as continued stories of actual day to day use surface and the images. Nice post @Jan1985.

[Photon42]

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2 hours ago, albertknappmd said:

I have not yet seen a review that addresses the S3 AF capabilities in low light situations...

Have any of you?

Albert

We were all counting on the beta testers ... 😇

[albertknappmd]

I was a beta tester for the ORIGINAL S3.... Would love to know if they really did improve the AF in the final version.

Albert

[BernardC]

8 hours ago, Jan1985 said:

There was a really passioned and lively discussion in the S-development department about whether the new S3 should have an OVF or EVF.

My guess is that they decided that the SL is the EVF system, and the S is the OVF system.

I don't think that they need a second EVF system, just to pick-up a few crumbs left behind by the (successful) SL2.

The S3 plays to a totally different market. Leica certainly hasn't made a decision about an S4 yet, and they probably will not for two or three years. I can see them releasing an S4 if the S3 program offers a reasonable return on investment, and if the market shows signs of life going forward.

As I have stated before, people have the same anxieties and concerns about Canon and Nikon (will there be a new 5D, is the new 1Dx the last of its kind?). Many pundits also think that Sony will exit the camera market as soon as it stops delivering huge profits. people love to worry!

Use what's available now, and what best serves your vision. No one knows what the high-end photographic market will be like in four years, or even in four months.

[glenerrolrd]

On 3/12/2020 at 5:29 AM, Jan1985 said:

What is interesting to look at that there are so many different viewpoints about the S3 out there. So many speculations. Some just know at this point that the S-System will die after the S3. And Leica wouldn't be really interested in the S3 anymore and so on.... But the really curious and funny thing about it... None of us just had one of the new FINAL S3's in his hands to work with it, playing with the files and makes practical experience. 

I just know through a friend that there was a big reason why Leica had this delay with the S3. They were really not satisfied with some parts of it. So they put in extra time for improvements. If they were not interested in the S-System they wouldn't have done this. As Mr. Kaufmann said in his interview. There was a really passioned and lively discussion in the S-development department about whether the new S3 should have an OVF or EVF. Lately they favored the OVF. So I guess yes maybe we see the next S camera with an EVF.

But the important thing. First the S3 should become a chance. And I can only imagine that in some weeks we have a quiet different discussion here.

It would be great if Leica would simply tell us what they improved .   Some off us put a lot of effort in testing that beta version and documenting things to improve .  Never heard a single thing back .  

I ask again WHAT IMPROVEMENTS ?  Imagine Quality was really excellent .  AF was poor .   

Look at the marketing documents .its a S 007 with a terrific new sensor .  Nothing else has materially changed . 

 

[davidmknoble]

13 hours ago, glenerrolrd said:

I ask again WHAT IMPROVEMENTS ?  Imagine Quality was really excellent .  AF was poor .   

Look at the marketing documents .its a S 007 with a terrific new sensor .  Nothing else has materially changed . 

 

Obviously we hope some level of improvement was made in the AF.

In terms of change, there were very significant firmware changes in the S007 from release to today.  I beta tested some of the firmware and usability increased tremendously.  For example, the top knob was finally able to work just like the SL - you can set it to autoexposure to get to the base and adjust it for +/- EV for that particular shot.  This is how I use the SL and S007 and it is much easier to switch between them now.  In addition, there were great advances in the depth of field on the display and other things.  Finally, it was really nice to hear the four buttons on the back of the S3 remain - where the M and SL's adapted to new interfaces.

All this was going on while they were developing the S3.  Clearly the higher density sensor came from the release of the SL2 and M10M, just a bigger sensor.

Why are the numerous firmware adjustments important?  If Leica were planning on abandoning the S series anytime soon, they would not have issued so many firmware upgrades.  Those take time to test so that you don't muck up the software on the camera and cause a nightmare for your client base when the camera doesn't boot up and take images.

So, in my humble opinion, the S series has a ways to go before they consider removing it from the lineup. In the title of the post, I say "Live."

 

[darylgo]

It’s difficult to answer this question, I’ll certainly add an S3 to my S2 and SE body count. The 007 was a feature jump, the S3 a Mp jump, meanwhile Leica has done little to expand the lens line and fulfill the long end or add pc lenses. It felt abandoned and somewhat continues to feel so.  If this was the old film days of Leica, Hasselblad, Nikon a 4 year refresh would be quite rapid, digital has changed this along with our expectations. Live and love this camera (system) for me. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by darylgo

[LeicaR10]

Davidmknoble,   I agree with you about the S system continuing on with Leica.  I find it interesting that some S system photographers appear to forget the history of the camera.   The S system saved Leica from oblivion.  Dr Kaufmann and senior management realized the company could not compete in a bloated and super competitive DSLR market with fielding the R10.  Hence the R10 and R system as a whole was cancelled.  The company double downed and bet on creating the S system for professional photographers...not the masses.  The S2 ($23K+) when initially fielded was herald by the pros and critics as a futuristic MF camera...ahead of its time.  The camera and superior S lenses continue to outperform the competition for resolution, color, aberrations etc.  The S cameras are all excellent for their intended design and capability afforded at the time of fielding.  The S camera, lenses and photographs that are created are truly a class of its own.  I keep reading photographers keep asking for more MPs and lenses for the S.  For what end?  Leica understands and listens to the pros whom the S system is designed to meet their requirements.  All the lenses made to date, exceed most pros requirements.  Professionally, if I was to need longer focal length, I can buy a Leica adapter and put a long lens on the S be it Contax or Hasselblad.  PC lens...don't need it or want it.  All PC corrections I need are fixed using Photoshop or Lightroom.  Does the S need more than 64 MPs.  Not needed for my corporate clients and private collectors photographs that I create for them.  If I needed more, I would go rent/lease a Phase One for a particular job and return it.  All the S lenses and now S3 more than meets many pro photographers requirements.  So asking and expecting more from Leica for the S, I think one can expect improvements in firmware, perhaps AF and maybe some day a EVF vs OVF.  For many pros we continue to ask Leica to keep the OVF vs EVF.  Last, I feel photographers would be better served and find more enjoyment using their current camera if they spent their time creating beautiful and enduring photographs rather than looking for the next model of whatever.  r/ Mark

Edited March 18, 2020 by LeicaR10

[davidmknoble]

1 hour ago, LeicaR10 said:

Does the S need more than 64 MPs.  Not needed for my corporate clients and private collectors photographs that I create for them.  If

@LeicaR10 well said.  You know, I don't have wall space to hang multiple 128 MP images up and I probably don't have the skills to handhold any camera at that resolution without some shake (that has a mirror).  I am happy with 37.5 MP and I hope to get the S3 over time as I think it will have some image enhancement out of the camera compared to the S007.  I am wondering if Leica will create the SEV with an EVF and maybe higher MP, but also have an S4 with optical and stop at 64 MP.  Interestingly, I still use my longest focal lengths with the SL- the  APO R 280mm f/2.8 with an APO 1.4 and 2.0 converter, and I also have a Nikon 500mm f/4 P ED-IF with a 1.4 converter.  Of course I use a tripod, but those provide me wildlife and extended work.  Stopping at 180mm for the S is fine and I get great landscape shots with that.  

Nice post, would enjoy seeing your work...

David.