Leica Super-Angulon-R 21mm f/4 on VS. Leica TL 11-23mm f3.5 on CL body

[eev776]

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I just received yesterday my Leica Super-Angulon-R 21mm f/4 that I got from store in San Francisco. It's such a beautiful lens I followed OZ's suggestion from Leica Review, and was able to find this lens in mint condition (which is rare) to use on my CL camera with (adapters stacked R-M, M-L). I already have Leica TL 11-23mm f3.5 it's a truly fantastic lens, proven after 6 month of use! 

Here is my thoughts after two days of extensive use: 

Pros: beautiful design, smooth focus ring, compact size, it has lots of character, lovely cinematic colors, 3D pop, very sharp once you got it in focus

Cons: lots of flare if it's against the light source (but I love lens flare!), no focal data, larger if comparing to TL 11-23mm especially hood

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Edited March 7, 2020 by eev776
adding photos

[eev776]

I was photographing my car collection to compare lenses Leica Super-Angulon-R 21mm f/4 vs TL 11-23mm f3.5, Unknow lens means Super-Angulon in Lightroom, I just installed Lens Tagger and I'm always surprised that Lightroom don't even have this lens in their lenses list. Photos taken both lenses with same settings.

 

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[eev776]

They both look very identical indoors. S-A 21mm sometimes on edges with more character, warm cinematic color, and 3D pop, TL 11-23 is versatile, wider, easier to carry around, but less 3D pop, images look more flat, cropped TL lens useless on M cameras but fantastic on CL.

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Edited March 7, 2020 by eev776

[eev776]

Here is some outdoor shots I took after work tonight.

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[eev776]

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[eev776]

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS LENS! 

After a week of shooting with this lens I had to return it back, very disappointed with quality of it.

Here is the reasons:

- Barrel distortion looks bad on architecture and it really bothers me

- Lens is not sharp, unfortunately older design is not working well with today's digital cameras

- Lots of lens flare, anywhere you point to shoot night streets you'll get flare even without filter, massive hood not helps, flare looks wired square, because of fewer blades

- It's a heavy and a big lens, huge on CL, but looks ergonomically right on SL2, when you add adapters and all together...hmm it does not make sense to me anymore

- Bad for any kind of night photography, makes wired night colors and I love night photography (compared it with Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH.on same camera, huge difference!)

One thing I miss about this lens is it's look, it has that classic 1970's era look, that's all!

Right after returning it, I went to Leica store and got myself for $1,500 more, Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH., it's been nearly a month and I just can't stop shooting with this fantastic lens, super sharp images, no distortion, small hood almost no flares, fantastic for night photography.

Hope that helps.

[pgk]

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I have two M lenses of 21mm focal length - the Super-Angulon ad the Super-Elmar. They are chalk and cheese although I would say that the Super-Angulon-M has better controlled flare than the later R version. The Super-Elmar-M is stunningly good and difficult to fault. The Super-Angulon-M resolves exceptionally well centrally but softens progressively towards the edges and corners. It also has a square aperture which sometimes provides weird flare patches. Much as you have experienced in your comments above, one is of its time (and can be great for B&W), the other is a fabulous all-rounder. Lens design has progressed significantly.

[Gregm61]

I see no reason, at all, to use or even try any superwide lens on the CL other than the 11-23. From sharpness to convenience, 100% compatibility, image data collection, etc, etc., it’s just THE option for this camera.

I have two M superwides, the 18mm f3.8 and 21mm f3.4 Super Elmars. Not tempted in the least to even give them a spin on my CL.

i have bought the Leica M to L adapter, but not with the CL in mind. At some point I plan on getting a nice, used SL That is the mirrorless body where adapted M lenses make sense.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Gregm61

[pgk]

19 minutes ago, Gregm61 said:

I see no reason, at all, to use or even try any superwide lens on the CL other than the 11-23.

Well, I've used the Super-Elmar on the original T and it was a pleasant enough set-up to use (although mostly I don't care for cropped sensors I've decided). But I'm not sure that the Super-Angulon-M will actually fit (I doubt it) which is a pity because centrally it performs well.

[wlaidlaw]

I really reserve my 3 cam 21/4 Super Angulon-R to using with B&W on my Leicaflex SL2. I don't think these lenses have aged particularly well. I looked at a number of them and they all have "Schneideritis" to one degree or another. This is where the anti-flare matt black paint on the edge of the elements has flaked off and can be seen as white dots inside the lens. I suspect that this is the cause of a lot of the flare problems folks have with this lens. They are also well known for fungus and fogging. The one I finally bought has only a tiny amount of Schneideritis, no fungus or fogging and as long as you don't point it into the sun, is just fine. That said, it is an old design, being a mild update of a lens (the f3.4 version) dating back to the late 50's/early 60's. The 11-23 is in a different class and for a zoom, is a superb performer. I think I would struggle to detect any difference between photos taken with the 11-23 and my 18mm Super-Elmarit-M. 

Wilson

Edited April 3, 2020 by wlaidlaw

[ramarren]

You guys are spurring me on to pull out my Elmarit-R 19mm f/2.8 v1 and play with it, again.  It's been a while since I pulled that one out of the closet other than for testing purposes. 

[cpclee]

On 4/3/2020 at 4:09 PM, eev776 said:

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS LENS! 

After a week of shooting with this lens I had to return it back, very disappointed with quality of it.

Here is the reasons:

- Barrel distortion looks bad on architecture and it really bothers me

- Lens is not sharp, unfortunately older design is not working well with today's digital cameras

- Lots of lens flare, anywhere you point to shoot night streets you'll get flare even without filter, massive hood not helps, flare looks wired square, because of fewer blades

- It's a heavy and a big lens, huge on CL, but looks ergonomically right on SL2, when you add adapters and all together...hmm it does not make sense to me anymore

- Bad for any kind of night photography, makes wired night colors and I love night photography (compared it with Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH.on same camera, huge difference!)

One thing I miss about this lens is it's look, it has that classic 1970's era look, that's all!

Right after returning it, I went to Leica store and got myself for $1,500 more, Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH., it's been nearly a month and I just can't stop shooting with this fantastic lens, super sharp images, no distortion, small hood almost no flares, fantastic for night photography.

Hope that helps.

The 21/4 Super Angulon R was considered an excellent performer, on film, in its day.  The primary fault was that it flared easily but sharpness and resolution were excellent from F5.6 onwards.  Does it somehow perform terribly on digital sensors, e.g. bad color shifts, mushiness off center, etc?  I know it is no match for today's 21mm ASPH lenses, but is it one of those lenses whose performance on digital sensors is far worse than on film?

It is dirt cheap by Leica standards, and I still shoot film, so I'm considering it.  The 19mm Elmarits both v1 and v2 are so expensive now that this may be the only R mount super wide that fits my budget.  I don't shoot this focal length enough to justify spending thousands.   For digital bodies I have the CL and SL 601 so I'm hoping the lens does well on digital bodies even though my primary application will be for film use.

Thanks.

Edited November 19, 2022 by cpclee

[wlaidlaw]

Since I got a 21-35 Vario-Elmar R, I don’t think I have used the 21 Super Angulon once. I use the Vario Elmar quite a lot on my M10-R where it is an equally good performer and very easy to focus with the Visoflex 2. I have put a 3M clear self-adhesive dot on my front control button to make it easier to locate without looking, for the zoom feature on a non-RF coupled lens, which of course, does not zoom automatically on focusing  

Wilson