Double feathered arrows on the Leica 1A

[RichardLeica]

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Thanks Gary. The feathered arrows, according to the Einems, were only on cameras up to serial #s around 4800.

[Thomasb42]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:57 AM, RichardLeica said:

Thanks Gary. The feathered arrows, according to the Einems, were only on cameras up to serial #s around 4800.

Late to this thread but thought I'd mention my Leica 1A, serial number 4497 - it has a feathered arrow on the rewind knob but not the advance, so perhaps they were already phasing them out by that time. 

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[jerzy]

your camera has been converted/upgraded 1930 or later. Originally it had mushroom shape release, no DOF ring and lower wind knob, with feather I assume.   All 3 modifications were popular at that time: modiyfing release mechanism eliminated the need to keep release pressed down during film rewind, DOF ring was very useful and new wind knob was higher and this gave better grip. Higher wind knobs were engraved with arrow only

[Thomasb42]

13 hours ago, jerzy said:

your camera has been converted/upgraded 1930 or later. Originally it had mushroom shape release, no DOF ring and lower wind knob, with feather I assume.   All 3 modifications were popular at that time: modiyfing release mechanism eliminated the need to keep release pressed down during film rewind, DOF ring was very useful and new wind knob was higher and this gave better grip. Higher wind knobs were engraved with arrow only

Ah that's very interesting, thanks a lot for the info

Edited October 30, 2022 by Thomasb42

[jerzy]

having seen the of your camera in another thread 2 or 3 modifications may be added:
- conversion from IA to IC, questionable is when it was done and who has done it - lens flange seem to be chrom plated, which rather would point towards third party, not Leitz modification
- flash contact added - third party
- possibly Elmar converted from fix mounted to removable, early mount - 11 oclock, without infinity lock. Here I see inconsistency between early Elmar mount and chromed flange. This would possibly indicate that either lens flange was changed later from nickel plated to chrom plated or Elmar is not the one which was originally on the camera.
Does the lens flange on the camera  have "0" at 12 oclock?
 

Edited October 31, 2022 by jerzy

[Thomasb42]

3 hours ago, jerzy said:

having seen the of your camera in another thread 2 or 3 modifications may be added:
- conversion from IA to IC, questionable is when it was done and who has done it - lens flange seem to be chrom plated, which rather would point towards third party, not Leitz modification
- flash contact added - third party
- possibly Elmar converted from fix mounted to removable, early mount - 11 oclock, without infinity lock. Here I see inconsistency between early Elmar mount and chromed flange. This would possibly indicate that either lens flange was changed later from nickel plated to chrom plated or Elmar is not the one which was originally on the camera.
Does the lens flange on the camera  have "0" at 12 oclock?
 

Thanks again, it's so interesting how so many early Leicas were updated/modified at some point. No '0' at the 12 o'clock position, a line on the side of the flange at the 9 o'clock position though. So around the time IAs were being converted to ICs all lens mounts and flanges were nickel plated? Also, do you have any idea what the hole drilled near the 1.75 mark on the lens is? Thanks!

 

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[jerzy]

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why someone made a hole close to 1,7m is unknown to me, for sure not at Leitz. "0" at 12 oclock means that the camera has standard distance flange - film plane and allowed to une any Leica lens that has standartised mount (as well marked with "0", see examples below.  I do not see 0 on DOF, is there any other other number, apart  apertures, possibly "497" engraved on DOF? "0" markings were done until approx 1939 on lenses and flanges, disappeared with IIIc

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Marking at 9 oclock is fine. Yes, lens flange should have been nickeled, unless conversion was done after 1946

[Thomasb42]

6 hours ago, jerzy said:

why someone made a hole close to 1,7m is unknown to me, for sure not at Leitz. "0" at 12 oclock means that the camera has standard distance flange - film plane and allowed to une any Leica lens that has standartised mount (as well marked with "0", see examples below.  I do not see 0 on DOF, is there any other other number, apart  apertures, possibly "497" engraved on DOF? "0" markings were done until approx 1939 on lenses and flanges, disappeared with IIIc

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Marking at 9 oclock is fine. Yes, lens flange should have been nickeled, unless conversion was done after 1946

Hi - no, no numbers I could see - only this single '4' behind the focus knob. I suppose the conversion of my camera must have been after 1946

[jerzy]

Number behind the knob  means the real focal length of optics, 4 is 50,7mm.  In order to have perfect focusing along the whole distance range (1m till infinity) and to compensate small deviations in production optical elements were grouped depending on real focal length and various mounts have been produced with slightly different pitch. For Elmar, accros the whole production 8 various groups were used. Group 4 is rather rare, I found it only on lenses from 1931 and interesting was that the lenses had no serial number stamped on the black ring, but have serial number (8x xxx range) engraved inside, visible only after dissassembly. Most probably your lens falls as well into this category - do you see any 5 or 6 digit number (example on photo below) on your lens? Still a mystery is why there is no 0 on DOF, your lens could not have been converted after 1946, must have been earlier.
Do you live in EU? Would you mind sending the lens to me to Vienna for inspection? I would do as well CLA on it at no cost. If yes, contact me via PM 

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[beoon]

Serial number 2284 delivered to Leitz Berlin on 25th November 1926. Leica confirmed that it had never been sent back to the factory for any updates. The only change is to the advance knob to the later type which was common for ease of use. The original advance knob would have had a 3 feather arrow as per the rewind knob 

 

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Edited July 9, 2023 by beoon

[jerzy]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb beoon:

The only change is to the advance knob

well, as well the speed dial was renewed, is from III. Is the rewind knob a bit different? Maybe it is just light reflection but it seems to me that it may be aluminium one.

[nitroplait]

On 7/9/2023 at 2:25 PM, beoon said:

Leica confirmed that it had never been sent back to the factory for any updates.

I doubt they are able to confirm that with certainty.

My IA was obviously factory upgraded to a IID yet the archive could not inform me of any records for that upgrade.

[beoon]

11 minutes ago, nitroplait said:

I doubt they are able to confirm that with certainty 

I received this message back from the factory when I emailed them.

“No entries in the old repair / maintenance books”

[nitroplait]

2 hours ago, beoon said:

I received this message back from the factory when I emailed them.

“No entries in the old repair / maintenance books”

Yes - it just means they can’t find anything, not that the camera hasn’t been back for modifications.

[Leica_Guy_Dallas]

My  Model I is No. 3360.  The film advance has double arrows and the rewind has triple arrows.

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[jerzy]

close to your....

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[dubois pierre]

To add a few feathers to this post🙂, my ex Leica Ia from 1927 N°4038 had 3 feathers on the 2 buttons and on my ex Leica Ia N°442 from 1925 with Elmax lens no feathers. Sorry for the very old photos. The sole lock is also special on this type of camera.

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[jerzy]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb dubois pierre:

N°4038 had 3 feathers on the 2 buttons

Pierere, rewind button is a bit unusual, with stright riffling. I believe I saw just few like this

[dubois pierre]

Exact Jerzy you have a good view. Curious indeed.

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Hallo,

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