Reasons switch to S3

[Jan1985]

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Are you still satisfied with the IQ and Performance of the S007 in 2020? Are 37.5MPX enough for you?

What could be the reason to switch to S3? Higher Resolution? Better Colors? Worth the price?

[LeicaR10]

Jan1985,   I have found for landscape photography for my corporate clients, the S007 works superbly.  The color, file size and resolution of the S lenses produce results that simply express my vision and my clients vote with their wallets.  Some photographers seem to buy into the marketing hype of "needing" more MPs, when in reality a S006/007 or some other camera such as an SL II would more than meet their needs.  Many professional photographers who use the S system either rent or lease their gear for jobs.  If the pro buys the S3, it is written down on their business taxes.  If the client must have, MF files,  high resolution and dynamic range photographs, a S3 might meet the requirements.  I find many photographers are lost in the hype of MPs and simply "want" an S3 vs "needing" an S3.  Obviously there is a difference between "wanting" and "needing".  That said, photographers would be far better off concentrating on the "content" of their photographs rather than "wanting" more MPs.  It is the photograph that is paramount IMO, not having the latest MF camera or lens.  If a photographer can "see" or envision a photograph that makes the viewer; Stop, Look, Think and if possible Feel (with feeling the hardest aspect to convey) something about that moment in time, then again IMO, it is the content of the photograph that separates a "mere photo" and thereby creates a "superb photograph".  So, many photographers would be far better off asking themselves..."Do you need an S3 or want an S3?".  If being honest with oneself, the person would find they really don't "need an S3".  Last,  I also suspect both their significant other and wallet would appreciate the honesty as well.   r/ Mark

Edited March 1, 2020 by LeicaR10

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[djmay]

There is generally no clear demarcation between needs and wants. For example, I chose the Leica S as an alternative to my 4x5 view camera work. There were circumstances under which I could not use the view camera; wind, rain, snow, etc. I could have taken the decision that I would not work under those conditions, however, that was not be acceptable to me. I also did not want to give up image quality of 4x5 film printed on fibre-based paper. To me, these were needs, not wants. To another person they could be wants.

I also wanted a camera that was easy to work with. Unknown to people, who do not work with view cameras, they are very simple devices and easy to work with in cold temperatures (with gloves). Again, for me this was a need. Add to that a viewfinder that is clear and simple.

The Leica S is about the only camera available today that meets my needs, and probably applies to many people that do not use view cameras. That does not mean that I could not work with other cameras; I do not want to give up these key attributes if I do not have to.

The S3 will be available to try very soon. Then everyone can decide for themselves. I suspect that after some people try it, they will be reconsidering their needs and wants.

Edited March 1, 2020 by djmay

[albertknappmd]

Two excellent and compelling posts...

I agree that the extra MP are not needed for most pictures and yes, you can produce a masterpiece with a brownie..

That being said, I will be looking at the claim that ISO 6400 will be free of noise and that the AF is better.. 

 

[John Smith]

4 hours ago, albertknappmd said:

That being said, I will be looking at the claim that ISO 6400 will be free of noise and that the AF is better.. 

 

If all things being the same, save a different sensor, then this would be the primary reason to switch. That is, if you want to consider switching. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by John Smith

[davidmknoble]

8 hours ago, albertknappmd said:

 

That being said, I will be looking at the claim that ISO 6400 will be free of noise and that the AF is better.. 

 

Albert, I wrote some about the M10M with the larger sensor.  My belief is that the noise level has decreased in the S3 (the read noise on the CMOS is probably less because of better technology).  That is probably only a small portion of the difference.  I think when an image at the S3 resolution is decreased in resolution to the size of the S007, then it appears to have less noise.  The ISO 50,000 on the M10M is outstanding, even at 17x22 prints (40 mp).  But, at 100% the noise is still there, think of finer high speed grain on the film.  

Just a thought....

Best.David.

[Jon Warwick]

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13 hours ago, djmay said:

For example, I chose the Leica S as an alternative to my 4x5 view camera work. There were circumstances under which I could not use the view camera; wind, rain, snow, etc. I could have taken the decision that I would not work under those conditions, however, that was not be acceptable to me. I also did not want to give up image quality of 4x5 film printed on fibre-based paper. To me, these were needs, not wants. 

I’ve done 4x5 for many years, both E6 and B&W, and I concur that its image quality (resolution, colour depth etc) gets pretty similar to the S series (or certain MF digitals in the c 50mp range).

But i’m interested if you miss movements on the large format, or does your photo subjects typically not require it?
 

For me, I could give up the LF camera for a digital only set-up, but front rise is something I frequently employ and would miss too much.

For digital, I guess the current options are mainly a tech cam like Alpa or Cambo, or a TS-E lens for a 35mm FF?

I’m a bit disappointed that Leica never made yet a TS-E for the S or SL line ....

Edited March 1, 2020 by Jon Warwick

[Jeff S]

25 minutes ago, davidmknoble said:

Albert, I wrote some about the M10M with the larger sensor.  

Higher MP, not larger sensor.  I see this terminology a lot lately, but only comment here since this is, after all, a forum section dedicated to a true larger sensor camera (compared to 35mm). Of course the S007 and S3 have the same size CMOS sensors; the latter with higher resolution, but so far unknown other characteristics (other than a new color array according to 18month old reports). For now, all speculation.

Jeff

[djmay]

9 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

I’ve done 4x5 for many years, both E6 and B&W, and I concur that its image quality (resolution, colour depth etc) gets pretty similar to the S series (or certain MF digitals in the c 50mp range).

But i’m interested if you miss movements on the large format, or does your photo subjects typically not require it?
 

For me, I could give up the LF camera for a digital only set-up, but front rise is something I frequently employ and would miss too much.

For digital, I guess the current options are mainly a tech cam like Alpa or Cambo, or a TS-E lens for a 35mm FF?

I’m a bit disappointed that Leica never made yet a TS-E for the S or SL line ....

I do miss movements, but I can usually achieve my objective in several ways. I stitch multiple shots, I use the 24mm lens frequently and I use small aperture as required. Only occasionally will I use software to replace movements, if the adjustments are small. A little bit goes a long way.

I have considered the tech camera route, however, the weather and dirty environment exclusions remain. Furthermore, the predominant manufacturer of digital backs, Phase One, is in disarray since the new owners took over. Phase One product owners are very unhappy with unaddressed (mal)functionalities of the newest digital back, a year and a half after it was released. Owners of the previous back, which had been highly praised, are unhappy because no new functionality will be added. The new owners stated that the interest in Phase One was driven by the opportunities in the software business. That should indicate where they are going in the future.

Hasselblad has announced they will release a new digital back also. However, Hasselblad is also on shaky ground. I would wait to see if Hasselblad will survive another two years under DJI. DJI has its own problems and Hasselblad could end up being a nuisance while DJI addresses the main business. In one of my previous careers, I have had experiences with the results of large companies acquiring small companies. It rarely ends up satisfactory for the small company.

So, in medium format digital cameras, there are only two stable companies; Fujifilm and Leica.

The Leica 120mm tilt/shift lens is nice. I have tested it. However, it is not wide enough for my purposes.

Example of stitching

Edited March 2, 2020 by djmay

[xiaubauu2009]

Tilt shift, I think it's just better to just use SL2 +Cambo/Arca and assortment of lens, even enlarging lens. lighter, and also more versatile. Combine with IBIS and multi shots, it's a winner.

[davidmknoble]

13 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Higher MP, not larger sensor.  I see this terminology a lot lately, but only comment here since this is, after all, a forum section dedicated to a true larger sensor camera (compared to 35mm). Of course the S007 and S3 have the same size CMOS sensors; the latter with higher resolution, but so far unknown other characteristics (other than a new color array according to 18month old reports). For now, all speculation.

Jeff

Jeff, correct...  my fault.  I'm just talking here not writing in a technical style.  I'll be more careful to be specific and not as general.  Appreciate the comment. 

David.

[glenerrolrd]

22 hours ago, albertknappmd said:

Two excellent and compelling posts...

I agree that the extra MP are not needed for most pictures and yes, you can produce a masterpiece with a brownie..

That being said, I will be looking at the claim that ISO 6400 will be free of noise and that the AF is better.. 

 

where did you see any claims that the high Iso and AF would be better ? 

[Photon42]

2 hours ago, glenerrolrd said:

where did you see any claims that the high Iso and AF would be better ? 

High ISO at about 2:00 here.

[albertknappmd]

I did not SEE any claims but given that I was fortunate enough to be a BETA-tester of the S3 in 2018-19, I witnessed the improvement in the ISO.

The AF was the issue and has hopefully gotten better in the interim..

Albert

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[davidmknoble]

1 hour ago, albertknappmd said:

I did not SEE any claims but given that I was fortunate enough to be a BETA-tester of the S3 in 2018-19, I witnessed the improvement in the ISO.

The AF was the issue and has hopefully gotten better in the interim..

 

Albert, that's gorgeous.  

I won't ask anything specific, as I'm sure you cannot disclose much, 

but, looking forward to contrasting the colors and exposures for low ISO work....

thanks for sharing!

[albertknappmd]

1 hour ago, davidmknoble said:

Albert, that's gorgeous.  

I won't ask anything specific, as I'm sure you cannot disclose much, 

but, looking forward to contrasting the colors and exposures for low ISO work....

thanks for sharing!

Thanks for your understanding... I am hopeful that the year spent re-tooling the S3 will be worth it....

These pictures are recent views from the Lofoten islands in Norway above the Arctic Circle.

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[albertknappmd]

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[albertknappmd]

all pictures with 007 and either 30-90mm or 24mm

[setuporg]

AF.  Simple AF!:)

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[cl@usinho]

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