Leica Elmar 5cm f3.5 vs Nikkor 5cm f/2 - ltm

[max.mlzr]

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Hey guys,

I'm currently setting up a Leica Screw Mount kit. I will be buying a CLA'd Leica iii with a new splitbeam mirror.

The whole kit is planned to be used for a gap year in New Zealand and therefore it needs to be small but still affordable because I'm still a student.

Now I can't decide between a probably uncoated but CLA'd Ltm 5cm Elmar f/3,5 and a Nikkor 5cm f/2.

 

The Elmar is incredible small which is amazing for travalling while still having a good quality as a like. And it fits in the ever ready case. BUT I really like using filters and it is very hard to use them on the Elmar because it needs those special A36 filters and I need to put them off everytime to change the aperture which is still hard without the filter.

The latter on the other hand doesn't have the advantage of being able to be pushed inside the body to become very small but it uses normal filters and it isnt hard to set the aperture with it. But it does not fit in the everready bag (or am I wrong?).

 

The question is now which one is better? How about the optical quality, I have no ressources to exactly compare them.

 

Greetings

[a.noctilux]

Hello Max,

I can comment only using the Elmar 3.5/5cm.

As I know well having used and still use some 5cm Elmar over time.

We can buy coated or non coated Elmar 5cm/50mm, but in my use, not much difference coated or not, only when used contre-jour situation,

and mainly when the light hitting the front lens or the filter mounted.

I understand that from start in 1930's, the lens was created simply without "needing coating" not available by then.

 

Using filter is simple as those venerable A36 filters have screw to secure the filter when mounted on front of the lens,

changing aperture is not that frequent, I set at f/6.3 or f/8 for all day long, so f/5.6 f/6.3 with yellow filter on for 100-200 ISO film.

Setting speed according to lighting condition.

When in darker place, I take out any filter anyway (to set at full f/3.5 !), for speed setting of 1/40, 1/50 or f/1/60 depending on camera.

 

Don't forget that using screw mount Leica is "take time to do everything" *, unmounting the filter to set the F stop (when needed, but in most case not) is in phase with

this "slow photography" mindset.

 

* more time to replace film which must be prepared beforehand, not really suitable for sequence frames,

even changing shutter speed is not so quick ...separate slow dial, etc.

 

Arnaud

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[max.mlzr]

That doesn't sound as bad as I thought.

I somehow forget that you could also adjust the shutter speed for light compensation, I was just always changing the aperture for compensation. But the way you described seems quite makeable.

I want to buy a Screw Mount Leica for it's great build and the quirks that come with it. I would like the embrace this kind if shooting style more in the future because printing my film makes the way I approach each picture different.

 

[spydrxx]

I have both lenses and they are truly different beasts. The Nikkor is a sonnar design, and quite sharp centrally from about f/2.8 on..it excells around f/5.6 as does the Elmar. Both benefit from using a proper lens hood.The Elmar looks more "antique" than the Nikkor (comment is for fashionistas). Both are good lenses. Your concern about changing apertures on the Elmar, IMHO just isn't a big deal in real life. The Nikkor uses an odd sized filter but the selection is greater than the Elmar in the A36 sizes...think polarizers and ND filters. It has been stated quite often that in the early 1950s that Canon and Nikon LTM lenses were slightly superior to Leica's offerings, especially in the coatings arena. I think you would be well served by either of the two lenses you are considering.

[Ecar]

I have both (actually a couple of each) as well and agree with what spydrxx says.

The OOF rendering is very different: look at sample pictures before choosing. AFAIC, I'm partial to the Sonnar look. The Nikkor is usable at f/2, which may be helpful in low light situations - and I would not underestimate the importance of coatings for general photography ie, if that's going to be your main lens. In addition to filters, cheap third-party hoods for the Nikkor are easy to find. But it's definitely bulkier than the Elmar, particularly with a hood on. Also, in my experience, it's easier to find an Elmar in good condition than a clean Nikkor, with the cost of a CLA being an important factor in the decision if funds are tight.

Edit: if you are not fully convinced by the ergonomics of the Elmar and want to try it out extensively, a Russian clone, such as the Industar-22, is worth considering. It's cheap, and the IQ can be surprisingly good.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Ecar

[max.mlzr]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Ecar:

I have both (actually a couple of each) as well and agree with what spydrxx says.

The OOF rendering is very different: look at sample pictures before choosing. AFAIC, I'm partial to the Sonnar look. The Nikkor is usable at f/2, which may be helpful in low light situations - and I would not underestimate the importance of coatings for general photography ie, if that's going to be your main lens. In addition to filters, cheap third-party hoods for the Nikkor are easy to find. But it's definitely bulkier than the Elmar, particularly with a hood on. Also, in my experience, it's easier to find an Elmar in good condition than a clean Nikkor, with the cost of a CLA being an important factor in the decision if funds are tight.

Edit: if you are not fully convinced by the ergonomics of the Elmar and want to try it out extensively, a Russian clone, such as the Industar-22, is worth considering. It's cheap, and the IQ can be surprisingly good.

I think Ill buy the Nikkor: Im currently looking at two offers: a uncoated cla'd elmar with slight cleaning marks and a bent outer metall ring for 200€ and a Nikkor with slight dust in good condition for 210€. 

Also this would be my main lens at first.

Edited February 26, 2020 by max.mlzr

[Ecar]

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Based on your description of both, yes, I'd go for the Nikkor - or look for another Elmar: whilst cleaning marks on an uncoated lens are almost inevitable, the resale value of a damaged Elmar is likely very low, as it's not a rare lens.

Slight dust is no big deal. I'd just make sure that the focus and aperture rings turn sufficiently smoothly, as a full CLA can add over 50% to the purchase price you indicate.

[wizard]

vor 24 Minuten schrieb max.mlzr:

Im currently looking at two offers: a uncoated cla'd elmar with slight cleaning marks and a bent outer metall ring for 200€ ...

I have bought late version red scale (coated) Elmars (I own three of them) in as new condition for 150 €, so you should definitely not buy an uncoated Elmar with cleaning marks for 200 €. The Elmar lens was produced in hundreds of thousands of units, so you should be able to find a good one for an acceptable price. BTW, there is not much to CLA on an Elmar 5 cm lens, as this lens is of very simple mechanical construction. Usually, the lens will be good without any CLA (often the helicoil needs some grease, but that is all and is simple to do).

[max.mlzr]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb wizard:

I have bought late version red scale (coated) Elmars (I own three of them) in as new condition for 150 €, so you should definitely not buy an uncoated Elmar with cleaning marks for 200 €. The Elmar lens was produced in hundreds of thousands of units, so you should be able to find a good one for an acceptable price. BTW, there is not much to CLA on an Elmar 5 cm lens, as this lens is of very simple mechanical construction. Usually, the lens will be good without any CLA (often the helicoil needs some grease, but that is all and is simple to do).

Where do you get those lenses for those chesp prices? Here in Germany I only find them for 250€+ in not the best conditions.

[wizard]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb max.mlzr:

Where do you get those lenses for those chesp prices?

The last one I bought was off the shelf at Foto Sauter in Munich, and that one looked like it had been produced yesterday. No scratches whatsoever on the lens element or the chrome parts, no internal haze, just like new. Maybe I was lucky.

[max.mlzr]

I didnt event know that this shop exists, thank you for the tipp. Ill tale a look at it.

[mdemeyer]

I just posted come shots the other day with the Elmar in the thread, “The view through older glass.”  Go back a page or two.  They were shot at F4 and F5.6 on an M10.  I think they are pretty representative of the lens. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by mdemeyer