gteague Posted February 25, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 25, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) newbie ondeck and hello to the group. i started to post a lot of background to my question, but i'll just jump right in. does the zeiss 21/4.5 lens work ok on the cl? i promise i'll try to do deeper searches here after i post this, nothing has popped up so far and about the only data i've found on google is that the lens causes two red stripes on the edges of the image on ?240? and some 'm' cameras which worries me as i don't post process. i shopped and agonized for days over the tl af lenses and the wide m lenses and settled on the zeiss as the very compact 35mm equivalent for keeping the small profile of the cl intact. i do have 3 l-mount af lenses which i intend to use as backup to an s1 but the smallest of these is the sigma 45/2.8 and it's like a 65mm on apc and since the cl doesn't have ibis i'll likely shake a little using it. anyway, don't ever ship anything ups ground out of nevada. it's been five days and it's only today made it to arizona. i could walk faster and i'm old and sick. /guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Hi gteague, Take a look here cl: waiting impatiently for mine. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 25, 2020 Share #2 Posted February 25, 2020 Welcome! The Zeiss ZM 21/4.5 should do well on the CL. You are aware, I suppose, that you will need an adapter L-M, preferably the Leica one ? It is more like a 32 angle of view, though. You could consider the Voigtländer Color-Skopar 25/4.0 instead. I'm very happy with the results on the CL. It produces rich colour on OOC JPGs in my experience. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) thanks for the welcome! i ordered the haoge adapter first as it was the 2nd-cheapest ($30) and i have a nikon f to l-mount by them which works perfectly. if necessary i'll step up to the kipon ($100) or the novaflex ($200). i'd find it really hard to justify the leica m-adapter at $425 since i don't plan on buying m lenses routinely as they are far beyond my budget. and first i have to see if i'm able to manually focus the cl as my eyes are beyond bad and i usually depend nearly 100% on autofocus but the peaking/magnification system on the s1 is good enough that even i can manage to manually focus on it and i think the leica sl2 and cl seem to share the same type of system. i will keep your voigtlander recommendation in mind in case i send this zeiss back. i have a 40/2 voigtlander in nikon mount i got long ago and it is super high quality and brilliantly engineered for the price point. oh, and while i'm going through previous posts on the forum, what is the consensus on the tl prime lenses. i've seen rave reviews of the 35/1.4 although it's very large for an apc system, but i seriously considered the 23/2. /guy Edited February 25, 2020 by gteague Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroMirage Posted February 25, 2020 Share #4 Posted February 25, 2020 Welcome aboard!! I have the CL and 4 TL lenses. 23/2, 35/1.4, 60/2.8 and the 18-56 zoom. They are all excellent. The focus peaking on the CL is excellent for manual focus. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share #5 Posted February 25, 2020 Just now, AeroMirage said: Welcome aboard!! I have the CL and 4 TL lenses. 23/2, 35/1.4, 60/2.8 and the 18-56 zoom. They are all excellent. The focus peaking on the CL is excellent for manual focus. thank you! a person on the dpreview leica forum told me that without the obscenely expensive leica brand adapter, the automatic or one-button magnification wouldn't work although the peaking would. and now i'm re-thinking whether i want manual lenses or not considering how frustrating it is for me to focus manually. /guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommonego@gmail.com Posted February 25, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, gteague said: thank you! a person on the dpreview leica forum told me that without the obscenely expensive leica brand adapter, the automatic or one-button magnification wouldn't work although the peaking would. and now i'm re-thinking whether i want manual lenses or not considering how frustrating it is for me to focus manually. /guy Yes it is true to use the dial to change focus magnification, you need the Leica adapter. But you can use the up arrow on the back of the camera, a little less convenient but not bad. Just tested it out because I didn't want to buy a second Leica adapter, picked up a cheap one on E**y. The focus peaking works with either adapter, as well as my 2 Nikon adapters. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2020 Share #7 Posted February 26, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, gteague said: thanks for the welcome! i ordered the haoge adapter first as it was the 2nd-cheapest ($30) and i have a nikon f to l-mount by them which works perfectly. if necessary i'll step up to the kipon ($100) or the novaflex ($200). i'd find it really hard to justify the leica m-adapter at $425 since i don't plan on buying m lenses routinely as they are far beyond my budget. and first i have to see if i'm able to manually focus the cl as my eyes are beyond bad and i usually depend nearly 100% on autofocus but the peaking/magnification system on the s1 is good enough that even i can manage to manually focus on it and i think the leica sl2 and cl seem to share the same type of system. i will keep your voigtlander recommendation in mind in case i send this zeiss back. i have a 40/2 voigtlander in nikon mount i got long ago and it is super high quality and brilliantly engineered for the price point. oh, and while i'm going through previous posts on the forum, what is the consensus on the tl prime lenses. i've seen rave reviews of the 35/1.4 although it's very large for an apc system, but i seriously considered the 23/2. /guy especially for focusing. The only adapter that offers magnification with M mount lenses by the thumbwheel is the Leica one. With all others you need to use the arrow keys, which is far less practical with the camera at your eye. But you can always use the magnification. Don't trust the folks on DPR too much - there are a large number of half-truths and worse floating around on those forums. If you are willing to forego that feature, there is no need to go for one of the expensive third-party adapters. I cannot comment on the TL primes as I use M-mount lenses instead, but the three zooms are stellar. I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of IBIS, the camera handles and balances well. Late edit - No need to worry about the price of Leica M lenses. Nobody is forcing you to buy a multi-thousand Shekel new one. There is a galaxy of fantastic affordable older and third-party lenses out there. The Voigtländers are positively cheap and of high quality, there is Zeiss in the mid range, and the used market is thriving. One of the best 50 mm lenses I have is a pristine Canon 50/1.8 LTM lens. I bought it for 100 Euro, and the sale included an equally mint 35/2.8 Canon LTM of the same vintage - a good performer as well. There are bargains to be found in older Leica M lenses too. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted February 26, 2020 Share #8 Posted February 26, 2020 another advantage of m lenses is that you get to use them on your m, which you will be buying one day after you realize you are addicted to Leica ! 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Mr.Prime said: another advantage of m lenses is that you get to use them on your m, which you will be buying one day after you realize you are addicted to Leica ! and therein lies a long (well, not that long) sad tale. and why i'm so sensitive to how a camera focuses. i've been shooting for well over 55 years now and have owned i guess hundreds of cameras over the years. worked at a newspaper and camera store, so i've fondled dozens more. my first used, non-borrowed camera was the argus c3 brick and my first new camera, bought with my store discount, was the yashica lynx f1.4 which was so soft wide open you'd have to check for vaseline on the front element. also, my photo hero was henri cartier-bresson famous for hating post processing and using mostly a 35 and 50 on his leicas. and i really really wanted a leica, but couldn't afford it. i think it was the m6 we sold new at the store in the late 60s and i came close to devaluing it by how many times i picked it out of the case to hold it and feel the difference between it and nearly every other camera we sold. my memory is shot, but i think it was $2400 although i don't know if that was with a lens or not. fast forward to the 80s when i got out of the navy and worked at the newspaper. my other photo hero was david davis duncan, a famous vietnam era photojournalist. but they wouldn't hire me to write or shoot (that's another sad story involving a lie about qualifications and degrees), but i lived back in the photo department as i learned to put my computers on autopilot to free up my time. on the newfangled internet/usenet a leica dealer was offering a new-old-stock leica m4-p, i think that was the first to be made in canada. i could just barely afford it along with a couple of older lenses, a 35 and a 90. i shot my first roll of film right there in newspaper rooms and photo dept and eagerly developed it (i had the run of the place because i'd develop for the photogs if they were short on time or needed to go on another assignment) and discovered that nearly all were out of focus. very badly out of focus--even the 35mm ones and the 90mm ones were just blurs. of course the first thing i blamed was my eyes although i'd never had any problems with any rangefinder camera ever. i put in a fresh roll and as the photographers came and went i had them all shoot test shots of a newspaper taped to the wall. all were out of focus no matter who took the shots and at least 3 of them owned leica systems themselves. the camera was under warranty, so it went back to leitz canada, but when it returned the results were the same. the leica photogs brought their lenses in and the problem was worse at 90mm, but evident with any focal length at most distances up to about 25-30'. sent the camera back again and again it came back unfixed. in desperation i finally talked the original dealer into trading me an m3 for it and the m3 had the exact same problem. i knew when i was beaten and it's been over 30 years since i've touched a leica. the nikon 8000 series came out about that time with autofocus and i've never looked back. and with the nikon i could use any of the newspapers closet of nikon lenses. sadly, there weren't any forums like this around back then or perhaps someone could have diagnosed the problem, but if leitz couldn't, then who? also, i ruined a $400 pair of glasses screwing the lens into the hard plastic of the viewfinder cover. so, i'm getting a leica. but at least it's autofocus and i feel i have a fighting chance with it. /guy Edited February 26, 2020 by gteague Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2020 Share #10 Posted February 26, 2020 The most likely answer: astigmatism... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #11 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) oh, i've had that since i was 3 years old. but my hobbies always were astronomy, target shooting, and photography. ironically enough, eh? and, as i said, i always blame my eyes first but i never had problems with the argus, the yashica, a contax, the canon ql17, a fuji 6x7 folder, or any other rangefinder camera i used and i preferred them while being unable to use most of the ground glass cameras like the hasselblad, rollei, or the graphlexes. plus, i had at least a half dozen pro photographers verify my results. one of them was just visiting yesterday, matter of fact, and when i told him i had a cl coming, he winced and said: 'remember last time you got a leica?'. just got a message from ups, the cl is coming tomorrow. yay! the ebay seller seems a very nice chap and i hope it's in good condition. /guy Edited February 26, 2020 by gteague 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 26, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 26, 2020 The Leica M Adapter L is the only one that includes electronics to interface with the camera and Leica lenses, provides access to the Leica lens profiles if you're using Leica M series lenses, and gives you the better ergonomics for use with magnification and peaking. It also has the most accurate mount registration so that the distance scales on lenses fitted to it remain accurately. If you have vision problems, I really don't understand NOT buying it because it's more expensive than the other ones. It's a "buy-once, use with whatever lens you want" proposition. You don't need another one for every M mount lens you want to fit to the camera, and the value of it in use is substantial. It also allows you to stack the Leica R Adapter M and get the benefit of Leica's lens profiles as well, and you can find tons of used Leica R lenses that perform on par with M lenses at far, far less money. G 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted February 26, 2020 Just now, ramarren said: The Leica M Adapter L is the only one that includes electronics to interface with the camera and Leica lenses, provides access to the Leica lens profiles if you're using Leica M series lenses, and gives you the better ergonomics for use with magnification and peaking. It also has the most accurate mount registration so that the distance scales on lenses fitted to it remain accurately. If you have vision problems, I really don't understand NOT buying it because it's more expensive than the other ones. It's a "buy-once, use with whatever lens you want" proposition. You don't need another one for every M mount lens you want to fit to the camera, and the value of it in use is substantial. It also allows you to stack the Leica R Adapter M and get the benefit of Leica's lens profiles as well, and you can find tons of used Leica R lenses that perform on par with M lenses at far, far less money. G i looked at some 'r' lenses and they were at very attractive prices compared to 'm' lenses of the same condition and focal length. but they also require their own $425 adapter. i guess if you saved $425 over the cost of an equivalent 'm' lens it would be a logical purchase. i think for now i'll be fine with the tl 23 and if i can find a tl 60 macro later on that would be an ideal oldschool leica pairing of 35/2 and 90/2.8 and i shot with basically that combo for many years before zooms got up to speed quality-wise. and if i'm still liking the cl by that time and technology hasn't passed it by too badly, i'll look for some manual focus lenses to fill in some gaps. for the cl, the lack of ibis and its compactness hold it back for any lenses over about 90mm for my level of shakiness, but my 70-200 l-mount lumix has ois and can be used on the cl, albeit at the tail wagging the dog scenario! can't thank you guys enough for the tips and help--this seems a friendly and helpful forum--the dpreview is somewhat chaotic although there are many nice people over there as well. my cl is out for delivery today but the 23mm lens won't be here until friday, so i'm using my sigma 45/2.8 until then and then the sigma fp camera and the lens will be shipping out for sale as the cl is replacing the fp. /guy 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2020 Share #14 Posted February 26, 2020 The effective combination for R lenses is the Leica M adapter + a (cheap) third-party R-M adapter. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted February 26, 2020 55 minutes ago, jaapv said: The effective combination for R lenses is the Leica M adapter + a (cheap) third-party R-M adapter. ah! very useful to know indeed. thanks mucho. /guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 26, 2020 There are just two gripes with the CL to me. One is the eye sensor for auto switching between LCD and EVF. It is too sensitive to dirt and also too easily dislodged by shocks, so I gave up and switch manually by putting it under the Fn button, and the touch-focus point lacks a centering feature and locking feature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted February 26, 2020 Share #17 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Gripes: when are they going to bundle it with an M adapter so we don't get robbed for buying one separately ? Edited February 26, 2020 by Mr.Prime Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share #18 Posted February 26, 2020 it's here! and it's a beauty. the ebay guy described it as being barely used and i'd have to agree. i'd call it mint or near mint or perhaps even like new. much smaller and lighter than i'd imagined, never having seen one. very glad i anticipated handling and got a thumbs-up and a half case as i tried using it bare and i had to plant my thumb on the lcd to hold it. even the origami box is a work of art. this is the first leica product i've bought since the m4p debacle and i'm sure apple is mucho jealous of their product display and storage. now i have an hour or two of setup and there's not much i like more than configuring a camera. i'll post initial impressions later. for now, here's what it looks like after unboxing and putting on the two accessories. i have a rope strap, but not mounting it for ease of handling during setup. oh, and i'm glad i decided to get the 23/2 lens which is coming in friday. even this tiny sigma lens feels too big for the small body. the fp and this lens are already sold and they'll be shipped out when the leica lens comes in, but it'll do to setup and test the camera. /guy Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306826-cl-waiting-impatiently-for-mine/?do=findComment&comment=3920412'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2020 Share #19 Posted February 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr.Prime said: Gripes: when are they going to bundle it with an M adapter so we don't get robbed for buying one separately ? Your friendly Leica dealer will happily sell you a bundle of camera and adapter for 2600 Euro... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gteague Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share #20 Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) updated firmware from v3.1 to v3.2. no problems, but it erased my settings. i guess that's why it asked me during the update whether i wanted to store my profile on the sd card. what i've found while setting up is that i'm having a hard time sorting out what button moves what around the menu. and there's no esc or exit button i've found yet although half-pressing the shutter release backs out of most things back to shooting mode. i'm gonna have to go back through the docs and pay more attention to the menus you get by hitting or pressing and holding the menu and fn and right dial button. so far it's very confusing and i'm still not sure how to get to the favorites one or how to set that up. i did find my way to the options to set up the dials as i want the right dial to be exp comp all the time and it seems like you can achieve that except in manual where there's no need for it. i don't understand why there's so many instances of exp comp in the menus when you can just turn the dial. so far so good. but it's gonna take longer than i thought to figure out as leica definitely does things different. but no biggie, i'm retired and it's too cold (and dark now!) to go out shooting. oh, and i wonder whether i hit the battery drain with the 45/2.8 lens issue i've seen on other threads. the first (aftermarket) battery i put in lasted less than 20 minutes although i did have the screen on the whole time. it went down to 25% before i pulled it to put a new one in for the firmware update. i'm not sure it was exactly 100% when i put it in, but the cl showed all the bars. one good thing is that the cl uses a very popular panasonic battery (same as the fp) and i had about a half dozen of them besides the two which came with the camera. oh, the firmware on the lens is v1.1 which is the latest. is there a manual which includes all the firmware updates or do you have to use the original manual and read the changelogs? btw, i got a thumbs up by lim and it seems nicely made and fits well, but it could stand to have the thumb part to stick out a little further back to provide more surface area. the shutter release is not what i'm used to either. it increases pressure little by little until you hit a sort of ledge, and then it clicks into half press mode. the panasonics i've been using don't have that much of a 'ledge'. verdict's out on which i like more. i haven't gotten into the app and wifi yet and might just ignore it. i intensely dislike devices that create their own wifi node and make you connect your phone to it, therefore emasculating your phone connection. can you access the camera menu via the app? now that would be very handy, but few apps to allow for this and are basically a wireless remote. /guy Edited February 27, 2020 by gteague Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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