Guess who Is coming to dinner: New L-alliance partner

[Paolou Pigini]

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Sure, I've been using a second-hand A7III for a while.

Changed it for:

• better EVF and manual focus experience (focus peaking included)
• better monitor and two (three) axis tilt (I often shoot vertical)
• no low-pass filter
• much more suitable body and interface for my needs
• better built camera
• 0.5x on the 24-105, that makes it really all-around
• time-lapse functions
• other stuff

I'm really happy with this system, I only complain about Voigtlander's absence 😀

 

[Archiver]

On 3/8/2020 at 8:56 PM, Simone_DF said:

It’s unrealistic to expect Voigtlander to jump onto the L train. 
After all, the SL2 is already optimized for M mount lenses, if you want to use a Voigtlander you just need to use the M version. 
Moreover, many Leica users already have some of these lenses, I think the market for a L mount Voigtlander lens would be too small for them. 

The SL2 isn't  the only L mount camera. A Panasonic S1 and S1R can be had for far less money, and aren't optimized for M lenses. Not to mention the great little Sigma fp. Voigtlander saw the wide uptake of Sony E mount cameras, and have made E mount versions of some of their M mount and Nikon F and Canon EF lenses. They have also made lenses directly for mirrorless like the APO Lanthars, now in E mount. They are extremely well performing lenses, and would be great on L mount cameras if optimized.

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[iiiNelson]

I for one would love Voigtlander to join the L-Mount Alliance because I believe they’d bring a different style of lenses to what the other three manufacturers are already making. 

• They make manual focus lenses with “modern classical” rendering
• There’s a big market for fast compact manual focusing lenses that cover a FF sensor and include corrections in the photo/video world
• Generally speaking the average Voigtlander buyer isn’t cross shopping with Leica unless it’s for a secondary lens so there’s little need for Leica to worry about that
• They’ve really raised their lens optical quality in the last 5-10 years starting with the Voigtlander 35/1.2 v2 and the 21/1.8 
• Street shooters looking for more compact lenses to go with a L-mount body would be interested as they’d be able to zone focus without relying on a LCD
• Panasonic has stated in interviews that they’re looking to introduce mid-tier FF cameras which will have a different market (read: lower end) than the Pro bodies released by existing members... so more affordable options will be needed from the L-Mount Alliance
• Optical designs are already done so what would be needed are new lens corrections and tweaks for existing FE lens designs reducing R&D costs
• There’s a market for Voigtlander to start with quality yet more affordable M-Mount & R-Mount - L-Mount lens adapters to further justify investment in the alliance

I was once a M-mount user in the past but I sold most of my kit (save the Voigtlander 35/1.2 v2) when I went to Sony FE. I added a Panasonic S1R as my personal camera and use the Sony still for paid work until I determine if the S1R can handle a full season of paid work independent of the Sony cameras. So far I like the Panasonic a lot but using it isn’t second nature still as I’m very accustomed to how the Sony worked. In any case as the L-Mount develops further I wouldn’t rule out dumping the Sony down the line but as of now the continuous AF is just more rock solid and dependable... well I at least trust it more right now. Time will tell how the Panasonic does but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the AF is much better than many reviews have made it out to be and the near and far shift capability seem to greatly help the camera choose what to focus on IMO.

[Archiver]

One thing holding me back from getting into the L mount system is the size of the lenses, not to mention the cost. Sigma have made some of the best value lenses for this system, but they are still quite large. Many are ports from DSLR designs; only a few, like the L mount 24-70 and 45/2.8 are designed with L mount in mind. The Panasonic lenses are beasts, and the Leica lenses are both giant and even more expensive. If the alliance partners or a new partner can produce some smaller, but still high quality lenses, I'd be more inclined to get into the system. And no, TL lenses don't count, they are aps-c and pricey. Voigtlander could get into that niche perfectly.

[BernardC]

9 hours ago, Archiver said:

only a few, like the L mount 24-70 and 45/2.8 are designed with L mount in mind

It seems to be the opposite. Only a few Sigma lenses are SLR designs, everything else was designed specifically for the L-Mount, or for L-Mount and Sony (in the case of the Sigma DG lenses).

I think the the problem you have noticed has a different explanation: there is very little market for smaller "good enough" lenses. Reviewers are obsessed with "performance scores," so they invariably mock any lens that doesn't "measure-up," no matter how pleasing the images may be. The only reason they take any pictures outside is to look for chromatic aberration in tree branches!

In a way, it reminds me of automobile magazine of my youth, which sincerely believed that any car that couldn't do 150mph was unworthy of purchase...

I'm sure you won't feel any better knowing that all full-frame mirrorless systems are guilty of the same sins. You really need to look at APS-C systems to find cameras that are more preoccupied with practicality than performance.

[verwackelt]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Archiver:

like the L mount 24-70 and 45/2.8 are designed with L mount in mind

As i read, Sigma will launch some of that smaller but good Lenses soon...

[iiiNelson]

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15 hours ago, BernardC said:

It seems to be the opposite. Only a few Sigma lenses are SLR designs, everything else was designed specifically for the L-Mount, or for L-Mount and Sony (in the case of the Sigma DG lenses).

I think the the problem you have noticed has a different explanation: there is very little market for smaller "good enough" lenses. Reviewers are obsessed with "performance scores," so they invariably mock any lens that doesn't "measure-up," no matter how pleasing the images may be. The only reason they take any pictures outside is to look for chromatic aberration in tree branches!

In a way, it reminds me of automobile magazine of my youth, which sincerely believed that any car that couldn't do 150mph was unworthy of purchase...

I'm sure you won't feel any better knowing that all full-frame mirrorless systems are guilty of the same sins. You really need to look at APS-C systems to find cameras that are more preoccupied with practicality than performance.

Only the DG DN lenses were designed for mirrorless so that will include the 35/1.2, 45/2.8, 14-24/2.8, and the newer, 24-70/2.8. Everything else ils a carryover from the DSLR designs. 

[BernardC]

7 hours ago, iiiNelson said:

Only the DG DN lenses were designed for mirrorless so that will include the 35/1.2, 45/2.8, 14-24/2.8, and the newer, 24-70/2.8. Everything else ils a carryover from the DSLR designs. 

It's hard to keep track of Sigma's letter codes, thank you for that.

So that gives us 4 Sigma, 5 Lumix (plus a 24 and 85 "coming soon"), 3 Leica zooms and 5 primes.

That's 17 "native mirrorless" L-Mount designs, not counting TL lenses, and 11 SLR-originated designs (all of which are Sigma Art primes).

That's not "just a few," that's a majority.

Of course, the fact that a lens comes from the SLR world does not always make it bigger. Take a look at the one specification that all three brands offer: 1.4/50mm. The smallest, although still quite large, is Sigma's SLR design.

[tom.w.bn]

- wrong text -

Edited April 26, 2020 by tom.w.bn

[01af]

Am 22.2.2020 um 06:02 schrieb Einst_Stein:

What left are Zeiss, Hasselblad, Pentax/Ricoh, Samsung, Olympus, Fujifilm, and Cosina ...

... among many, many other conceivable contenders, most of them with names no European or American ever has heard of.

[iiiNelson]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:13 AM, BernardC said:

It's hard to keep track of Sigma's letter codes, thank you for that.

So that gives us 4 Sigma, 5 Lumix (plus a 24 and 85 "coming soon"), 3 Leica zooms and 5 primes.

That's 17 "native mirrorless" L-Mount designs, not counting TL lenses, and 11 SLR-originated designs (all of which are Sigma Art primes).

That's not "just a few," that's a majority.

Of course, the fact that a lens comes from the SLR world does not always make it bigger. Take a look at the one specification that all three brands offer: 1.4/50mm. The smallest, although still quite large, is Sigma's SLR design.

Well the 45/2.8 is significantly smaller than other L-mount lenses. I do believe that the 24-70/2.8 is slightly smaller than the DSLR version but I haven’t seen them in person next to each other yet. It’s kind of hard to judge the lens size though as most of the newer lenses are designed to evolve much higher resolutions than the older lenses needed to worry about. In that frame of mind it’s not really comparing like for like.

From Panasonic you have the 24-105/4, 70-200/4, 50/1/4, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8, and 16-35/4... along with teleconverters with a couple of new primes coming soon. So that’s 6 lenses for now and 3 bodies with a rumored less expensive midrange option coming down the road. Leica has 11 FF L-mount lenses (released or on the roadmap) I believe but outside of maybe the 35mm APO-Cron I don’t see any in my near future.

I’ve used Sigma lenses on both the Sony and the 14-24 and 45 on the L-mount. I think both the 45 and 14-24 do well on the S1R. The 35/1.2 hunted a lot on the L-mount but it was rock solid on the Sony FE cameras from wide open in focusing speed and accuracy. Maybe it’s improved now as this was tested back in December/January time frame for me. I don’t know that this system is for everyone but I like The Panasonic cameras a lot so far.

Edited April 28, 2020 by iiiNelson