My new M10 Just Arrived

[MikeMyers]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Aha!  I didn't know any of that.  So, the only reason to be concerned with this is to get the proper information in the EXIF data?  In that case, it's a non-issue for me.  I'd rather it be correct, but it's not that important.

Of the lenses I'm likely to use on the M10, I have this 50 Summicron, a 35mm Summilux, and a 90mm Summicron.  Actually, if all I need to do is look up the model number for those three lenses, I can just enter it in the menu.  I thought there was a lot more to it than this.  OK, as you put it, If you have more than one uncoded lens - say, a 50 and a 35 - the camera will again always go back to the last code entered. Therefore swapping between uncoded lensesrequires a simultaneous trip to the menu to keep the camera in sync with what is actually mounted.

Are my Voigtlander lenses likely to be coded?  They're maybe six or seven years old.

If I remember correctly, there used to be kits to add the code to old lenses.  Is this still true?

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[MikeMyers]

Something else I'm puzzled about.  I tried taking a photo of the Miami skyline, around midnight, and the camera naturally adjusted things lighter, which is not what I wanted.  So, I started using the "wheel" at the top right to decrease the exposure.  After a few minutes, I didn't know what the wheel was set at - is this a number that is prominently displayed on the main screen?  Like, if I don't know where it's set, how do I set it back to zero.  

I was half asleep at the time, and maybe I missed something.  Nothing was working, so I set everything manually and got the photo I was after.  I'll attach two photos, one as set by the camera, and the other set by me, manually.  Other than for reducing the size, neither image is edited in any way.

Maybe I missed it, but I was looking for a number in my viewfinder, indicating the amount of exposure compensation, so I could quickly re-set it to zero.

 

Oh, and one more thing - I didn't expect the image to come out as nice as it did!!!  I'm very pleasantly surprised, now that I can actually see the result.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited February 17, 2020 by MikeMyers

[evikne]

28 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

OK, as you put it, If you have more than one uncoded lens - say, a 50 and a 35 - the camera will again always go back to the last code entered. Therefore swapping between uncoded lensesrequires a simultaneous trip to the menu to keep the camera in sync with what is actually mounted.

That's correct.Two of my lenses are uncoded, and every time I swap one of these, I forget to change the lens manually in the camera menu! 😠 Therefore I have purchased an indispensable program called Exif Editor. It has saved my day so many times. 

[MikeMyers]

I will look up my three Leica lenses today, and find the codes.  Maybe I can remember to do this when I change lenses.

Silly question #999, I also have a collapsible 50mm Summicron.  Am I correct that these lenses are NOT to be collapsed when/if used on a M10 ?  I assume that's the case, and I never use those lenses (except on my film Leica cameras, which I don't use either).  Too bad, would be great for a travel camera.

[microview]

As Adan notes above, selecting the appropriate lens nomenclature for an uncoded lens will remind you of the lens when viewing your photos but apply certain in-camera corrections appropriate to that lens. Using uncoded lenses only confuses if, say, you swap between a Leica 50 and a Voigtländer 50 and then can't remember which was which when you look at your editing program. With some Zeiss lenses the company sometimes suggests a different focal length choice: eg use 28mm for 35mm lens for optimal correction. All a bit confusing... but your VC wides are not duplicated by other makes so that helps.

 

PS look at your manual (physical or on-line) and it will tell you which collapsible lenses should not to be used with the M10.

PPS Discussion of this at

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by microview

[farnz]

7 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Are my Voigtlander lenses likely to be coded?

Leica owns the patent on the 6-bit coding so, no, other lens manufacturers can't code their lenses.  You can code the lenses yourself* or arrange for a company to mill pits into the lens flange at the appropriate points and fill them with white and black paint to produce the coding sequence that corresponds with a Leica lens of your choice.

*Match Technical used to produce the "M-Coder kit" that contained a template that you could use to apply a temporary 6-bit code to a lens with a Sharpie pen.  Some folks had more success with this than others and some temporary codes lasted longer than others.

Jin Finance sells replacement flanges with milled pits on ebay that you can use to replace the original lens flange and then fill the pits with paint.  A word of warning though, I did this with my 50/1 Noctilux version 4 only to discover that there were shims beneath my lens's original flange to set its calibration.  I was fortunate to be able to refit the original flange and keep the shims intact although it was touch and go and I lost a lot of sweat.

Pete.

[adan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

 After a few minutes, I didn't know what the wheel was set at - is this a number that is prominently displayed on the main screen?  Like, if I don't know where it's set, how do I set it back to zero.

Exposure compensation (if any) set with the thumbwheel will be displayed

1) briefly, when the shutter button is pressed slightly to lock in metering, in the optical viewfinder (LEDs at bottom, e.g. - 0.3)

2) any time you press the round center button in the 4-way-controller disc  (an "INFO" button, but unlabelled) - on the rear LCD screen (along with a lot of other info). In that case it is displayed on a linear scale from -3 to +3 stops (with 1/3rd-stop tick marks).  -3 | . . | . . | . . | . . | . . | . . | +3

Press the INFO button, and you can then twirl the thumbwheel to get the exposure comp. back to zero. Without having to put the viewfinder to your eye, or risk an accidental exposure by pressing the shutter button.

[adan]

Voigtlander lenses are not factory coded.

The ones that come in M-Mount do have a depressed "valley" in and around the back surface of the mounting flange, such that coding added by hand with ink or paint is below the contact surface, and far less likely to rub off, thus machining of that surface is "pre-installed" - but not spot-by-spot - on those Voigtlanders. I believe the Zeiss ZM lenses, made in the same Cosina factory, have the same protective valley machined into the mount ring - at least in more recent production.

I've had an M-mount 35 f/1.4 Nokton for over a year, coded by hand with Sharpie™ pen marks, and it is as black and effective as when first added. No signs of rubbing off.

[MikeMyers]

2 hours ago, microview said:

........ look at your manual (physical or on-line) and it will tell you which collapsible lenses should not to be used with the M10.....

Page 135 says "Lenses with retractable barrel can only be used with the barrel extended, I.e. their barrel use never be retracted into the camera......."

Not wanting to risk damaging anything, I'm going to forget about this idea.  

Maybe I "can" do it somehow, but I don't want to risk it.

[pedaes]

44 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Page 135 says "Lenses with retractable barrel can only be used with the barrel extended, I.e. their barrel use never be retracted into the camera......."

Not wanting to risk damaging anything, I'm going to forget about this idea.  

Maybe I "can" do it somehow, but I don't want to risk it.

Leica sell the collapsible 90mm for the M10. Of course they must be used with the barrel extended to perform at their designed focal length, and IMHO best mounted that way also.

Edited February 17, 2020 by pedaes

[MikeMyers]

Quick question.

It seems to me that the best settings for walking around with the camera, with no particular objective in mind, are A for automatic ISO setting, and A on the shutter speed dial.  That way if something comes up and you don't have much time, there's a reasonably good chance that the camera will select settings that are "adequate".  This goes along with setting the aperture to maybe f/8, and setting the focus to get the best range of focus for what I'm doing.  

I think I'm a little spoiled by my Fuji X100 cameras - I keep looking in he viewfinder to se what ISO the camera is going to use.  If I have set up auto-ISO, and my ISO control at the left is on "A", what is the quickest way to check what ISO speed the camera is about to use?

[MikeMyers]

Oh, just wanted to add that I found a useful video for how to work with an M camera, "5 Tips on How to Get the Most out of Your Leica Rangefinder"   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzT1-v8LD6c   Some of them seem obvious, but I never really thought I should always leave the camera either "on" or on "standby".  Now it seems obvious.

[adan]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

It seems to me that the best settings for walking around with the camera, with no particular objective in mind, are A for automatic ISO setting, and A on the shutter speed dial.  That way if something comes up and you don't have much time, there's a reasonably good chance that the camera will select settings that are "adequate".

Let's see - you've used an M8.2 and an M2 (no internal meter).

Just remember how strongly centerweighted (almost spot) the M10 classic metering is (using the optical finder, not Live View/EVF) - more strongly than the M8, since the M10 meters the same area, with more picture around it (net: a smaller % of the final picture). It can be fooled, in grab-'n-snap situations. (and note your previous problem with shooting a nightime skyline).

Also note the threads about M10/M10 Monochrom dynamic range.

Nevertheless, I do as you suggest, especially in highly-variable lighting, such as a gallery with: window light at one end, stage spots at the other end, and picture spotlights randomly distributed elsewhere - there can be a 4-5-stop exposure variation just walking around in that one room).

For automated snapshooting, the M10 is best biased to underexpose a bit (minus 0.3 to 0.7 stops) - that prevents blown highlights in most situations, and the M10 pictures have an immense capability to recover shadows that look totally black straight from the camera.

This grab-shot taken with the 21 Elmarit (a notorious underexposer, due to its wide view and wide metering pattern). Due to the lens and the snow, in this particular case I set Exp. Comp. to zero. Nevertheless the straight-from-the-camera darks (left) are pretty inky (while the white snow was "just right" - neither blown nor gray). But note how much can be recovered from the M10 shadows (right version):

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by adan

[mujk]

If you don't use custom profiles for anything else, you can use them to select which uncoded lens to set. A bit quicker than going into the lens list every time. Most of the information you may be interested in while shooting can be displayed by pushing the center button.

[maxfairclough]

Enjoy your M10.

[MikeMyers]

23 hours ago, adan said:

...........Just remember how strongly centerweighted (almost spot) the M10 classic metering is (using the optical finder, not Live View/EVF) - more strongly than the M8, since the M10 meters the same area, with more picture around it (net: a smaller % of the final picture). It can be fooled, in grab-'n-snap situations. (and note your previous problem with shooting a nightime skyline)........

 

I found this video that I think will help me visualize what the camera is likely to do.   I also dusted off my Sekonic Studio DeLuxe III L-398A Exposure Meter.  I think it will be interesting to see what exposure the camera suggests I use, and see what I think I ought to use.  I bought it many years ago to use with the M8.2, but I seemed to be doing reasonably well most of the time just using the built-in meter, at least for a guide. 

I guess there is no single perfect exposure that I can do, but I ought to be able to select an exposure that allows me to do what you demonstrated, adjusting the image later.  With the M8.2 I could bring up detail from the shadows, but it was usually noisy.  I'm not so concerned about 'noise', as that's something I dealt with all the time back when I used film.  

So many things to keep track of, to get the best images.  Exposure lock is one more.  

 

I haven't found it yet, but does the M10 have a way to "bracket"?  Can it quickly take multiple frames for an HDR image, adjusting the exposure as needed?

[MikeMyers]

3 hours ago, maxfairclough said:

Enjoy your M10.

Thanks!  I feel like I did ten years ago when I got my M8.2, learning how Leica does things.  A lot of things are starting to make sense.  Tomorrow I need to find the recommended ways to HOLD the camera.  I know just what my right hand and fingers want to do, just as they did a lifetime ago on my film Leica cameras.  It's the left hand that I'm trying to sort out.  Of the two ways I found to use my left hand, one blocked the viewfinder, so that's out.  The other way, cradling the lens seems to work the best, but this is a lens with just a knurled surface around the lens that I need to rotate to focus.  

Oh, and I forget who posted about it, but long ago, I used to "hunt" for just the right focus.  I recently read that this is a terrible thing to do.  Just rotate the focus ring, until the images become one, and STOP.  

I've got several very old Leica Manual Books from back in the 1970's or so.  When I work my way through the M10 instruction manual, I'm going to see what I can learn from them.

....and most importantly, I need to start using the camera.  In India, I took photos every day.  Now that I'm home, there are so many other things taking my time.

[MikeMyers]

I was curious as to how much detail I'm getting from the M10 and my ancient 50mm Summicron, so I set the camera up outside my balcony, and shot a scene with lots of detail.  I don't know how it will compare with my Nikon using a 50mm lens but the last time I tried this (using an old 35mm Summilux) the M8.2 with that lens beat my Nikon D750 with a zoom lens that I adjusted to show the same area as the Leica.  I was comparing photographs of license plates in cars parked a block or two away.  

Anyway, here's my test photo.  I edited it in Nik Collection, using the "Detail Enhancer" filter, which brings out detail that I can't even see in the image straight from the camera.  I also used a second filter to bring out the shadow detail a little more.  Gee, I guess this is the 45th photo I've taken with the new camera!  Anyway, I'm very pleased with it.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jeff S]

21 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Oh, and I forget who posted about it, but long ago, I used to "hunt" for just the right focus.  I recently read that this is a terrible thing to do.  Just rotate the focus ring, until the images become one, and STOP.  

I've got several very old Leica Manual Books from back in the 1970's or so.  When I work my way through the M10 instruction manual, I'm going to see what I can learn from them.

 

Keep the focus tab, or focus ring, at the infinity stop; then you'll always know which way to rotate for closer focus.  The location of the tab (like the position on a clock) will become second nature for various subject distances.

This and many other tips and answers to commonly asked questions appear in the FAQ, most of which apply to many generations of digital Ms.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/216580-leica-m8-m82-m9-m9p-mm-mtyp240-faqs-questions-with-answers/

Jeff

[MikeMyers]

Thanks - will check that out.  .....and I like the idea of keeping the lens against the "stop", unless I'm zone focusing.