My new M10 Just Arrived

[MikeMyers]

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My new M10 arrived yesterday, but I resisted the temptation to open the box until this afternoon.  Went through everything slowly, put the battery on charge, installed the neck strap (was surprised that it was different from what Leica provided before), then started to read the manual while following the instructions.  The basics are done - maybe tomorrow I'll start using it.

I've got a few questions - first, the memory card.  I took the memory card from my Fuji X100f, SanDisk Extreme 90 MB/s 64GB card, put it in the M10, formatted it, and until/unless I find out that it's not appropriate, I'll use it for a while (leaving my X100f feeling very dejected and desecrated).  So, is this an appropriate memory card?  I don't plan to do much burst shooting, and I empty out the card every day.

Next, I guess I'll find out soon enough anyway, but are the DNG files created by the M10 the same as those created by an M8.2 camera?  I've been using Adobe's program to convert the Leica DNG files to a more standard format.  Does the D10 already capture them this way?

Also tomorrow, I need to find out what firmware came with the camera.  If my camera needs an update, I might as well do that as soon as possible.

To start out, I mounted my 35mm Summilux, a lens I've owned since the 1980's or so.  Without my glasses, the viewfinder was awesome!  So much nicer than the M8.2 viewfinder.  But when I put my glasses on, I can't see the full field.  As someone else here pointed out to me earlier, it's nice to see the full view from my 35mm lens once again!  Another option is to get the Visoflex, but I'm not too excited about that, not to mention if I get one, I can't use my M10 thumb rest I already attached to the camera.  Do most M10 users buy the Visoflex?

I was warned by someone here to be careful with my M8.2, because if the battery died (which it did once) at the wrong time, the shutter might be stuck in a strange way that would mean returning the camera for service.  I never heard of this before.  Is it still a concern on the M10?

It's such a small difference I feel silly for feeling that way, but the M10 looks and feels in my hands the way all my film Leica cameras looked and felt.  It's just so - natural.  I bought a new M2 back when that was the camera to buy, and I loved it.  I get the same feeling about the M10.  I've turned "image review" to OFF, and I plan to use it as if it was a film camera.  Heck, it's almost as quiet as my M2 was, which is a bonus.  

Because the M10 has "live view", I can now do things I used to rely on my Nikons to do.  With a telephoto lens, I expect to be more confident in my focusing.  I've got an old 90mm f/2 Summicron off for repairs at DAG Camera, and while I don't expect to need this lens all that much, if the only camera I take with me is the Leica, that lens may be a useful tool, especially if I leave all my other camera gear at home.  For that reason, I might want to buy a 21mm lens as well, as I often need an ultra-wide lens in India.  I've had to resort to using my iPhone 11 Pro to get those photos over the past year.

 

Thanks for all the help I've received here, both lately, and many years ago when I got my M8.2.

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[muah]

Enjoy your new M10.

my advise is do not rush into the Visoflex.  I have it but not much use of it as there is LiveView if need.

A 90mb/s card is just fine, since we are not doing video with the M10.

for me, i needed some viewfinder correction using Leica diopter screwed on to get clear view.

Have also an M9, and do not see the any difference in DNG format, though the renderings are different, but you can convert using Adobe.  (I personally went with Capture one).

A compact wide angle lens to consider is 28mm Elmarit. Compact lens.

Edited February 16, 2020 by muah

[Jeff S]

Card should be fine, DNG/Adobe is fine (I use LR Classic), no battery concerns (except less life due to CMOS and slimmer profile than M240, although not best practice to drain until empty).... just buy an extra one.  

I use the RF exclusively on the M10, but I don’t go beyond 28 to 50 (to 90 in the past).   Live view is useful, however, for RF/lens focus calibration checks. Make sure your eyes are corrected for distance and astigmatism.  The focus patch is set at a virtual distance of 2m.  I started using a +.5 diopter, in addition to my glasses, as a result of aging eyes. A dealer can let you test diopter strengths, or a local optician may have free trial diopters for you to experiment.  I recommend thin, flexible frames and the thinnest possible lenses so that you can comfortably press your eye to the VF (it’s important to keep your eye centered).  Compared to the M8.2, the VF opening is larger with better eye relief and higher magnification. Both have frame lines optimized for 2m, so you should be used to framing accommodation based on subject distance.

Enjoy.

Jeff

Edited February 16, 2020 by Jeff S

[farnz]

5 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

I was warned by someone here to be careful with my M8.2, because if the battery died (which it did once) at the wrong time, the shutter might be stuck in a strange way that would mean returning the camera for service.  I never heard of this before.  Is it still a concern on the M10?

Hi Mike,

That was me.  Congratulations on your 'new' M10 and I haven't had the same problem with my M9P, M240, or M10 nor has anyone else mentioned it s far as I'm aware.  It seems to have been a M8/8.2 quirk that was at least partly caused by the energy needed to cock the extra strength shutter spring required to reliably release the M8's shutter at 1/8000th.  (I recognise that the M8.2's top shutter speed is 1/4000th but the same part was used in both camera models for expediency.)

Pete.

[pedaes]

5 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

convert the Leica DNG files to a more standard format

The Leica RAW files are pure Adobe DNG format - what is more standard (freeware and future proof) than that?

Edited February 16, 2020 by pedaes

[TomB_tx]

I have no problem seeing a 35 frame on my M10 with glasses, but I’ve used Ms with glasses for 50 years so maybe I’ve adapted. I use the Visoflex only for 21 and sometimes 135 lenses. (The M10 RF hits focus well for 135, but the Viso shows details better.) 

The Summarit 90 2.5 is smaller & lighter, and give nice results.

[MikeMyers]

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'farnz', thanks again.  I got overly cautious because of what you wrote.  I have four batteries for the M8.2, and once the battery indicator starts to move down, I will swap batteries.  I guess I got lucky - beginner's luck?  ....but nobody warned me about this, until you did.  Thank You!!!!!

'muah', I found a used Visoflex, and was tempted to buy it, but then started reading the reviews.  The main thing though was that I enjoy the thumb rest so much.  I put one on my M8.2 and it makes the camera feel so much more secure in my hand.  I decided not to buy it.  Maybe I'll feel different in a year or two or three, but I've got more than enough to learn already.  I don't think I'll be using the back screen very much for shooting - is there a way to turn it "off"?  On my Fuji, if I put my eye up close to the viewfinder, the screen shuts off.  That's too much to expect, I guess, but maybe there's a setting to turn the back screen "off" unless I'm using the menu functions?  Hmm, just checked, and it's now working the way I wanted.  Not sure how I accomplished that.  Maybe because I set "image review" to "off"?  As to the lens, I can check out the 28mm Elmarit.  My lens collection now is 50mm Summicron, 35mm Summilux, 90mm Summicron', 25mm Voigtlander, and 15mm f/4.5 Voigtlander which came with a separate finder.  On the M10 that 15mm lens ought to be quite "interesting".   :-)

'pedaes', I'm used to the DNG files from the M8.2, which I convert to Adobe DNG including the preview.  If the M10 already does that automatically, great!

I've got a lot of reading to do, but I know enough already to start using it.  Might try so today, but it's supposed to rain all day in Miami.  Phooey.  Who knows, maybe the weather will clear up. Even if the camera is water resistant, I don't think that applies to my 40 year old lenses, and I know it doesn't apply to the camera's base plate.

[farnz]

3 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

I don't think I'll be using the back screen very much for shooting - is there a way to turn it "off"?

The LCD screen is only on when the M10 is in LiveView mode.  If you press the LiveView 'toggle' button (top button on the left hand side) it will turn LiveView off and you can focus using the rangefinder.

Pete.

[MikeMyers]

'TomB_tx', your response snuck in while I was typing the above.  That's good to know.  I only tested this in my room - I can see the full frame without my glasses, but I didn't when I put my glasses on.  As to glasses, I am sure I will have the same problem with the M10 as I did with my Fuji and Canon, that I couldn't see the rear display very well - it was always out of focus.  This came up while I was at the eye hospital I volunteer at, and they solved the problem for me.  They made a set of progressive lenses, with the top half of the lens being "distance", which quickly changed into a very close prescription so I can clearly read the menu and check focus.  With these glasses and the M10, I can't come close to seeing the full frame lines for my 35mm lens.  I can see the 50mm frame lines perfectly though.

On the other hand, while my 35mm lens has become my "normal" lens on the M8.2, it is back to being "too" wide to be my normal lens on the M10.  I put the 35 back on the M8.2, put the 50 on the M10, and all is well.  Now I can see the 50mm frame lines just fine, even with my glasses on.  Thanks - I hadn't really thought this out until just now.

I'll check out the Summarit 90 2.5.  The Summicron 90 is rather big and heavy.  I think for now, I'll just learn to use what I've got.  With the M10, it's a whole new world.  I should have bought the camera years ago.

[MikeMyers]

'farnz' - yep, that's probably what I did.  So Live View is now off, along with 'image review'.  Do you guys use LV with 90mm lenses, or is the rangefinder good enough to set the focus?

One more new thing I need to figure out - when I went to look at my image review, it has a way to "rate" my images???  I need to check that out too.  If it's a standard way to do this, and other software can recognize it, this might save me a lot of time selecting my best images when I get back to my computer.  I don't know what it does yet, but I did install the Leica app on my iPhone.  Maybe a rainy day is just what I need!!!  Grab the manual, and a coffee, and start reading. 

[Musotographer]

42 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

'muah', I found a used Visoflex, and was tempted to buy it, but then started reading the reviews.  The main thing though was that I enjoy the thumb rest so much.

Congratulations on your M10 - it's a marvellous camera. While I much prefer using the optical VF I find the Visoflex + Focus Magnification sometimes invaluable; e.g. when using tricky-to-focus lenses wide-open (75/1.4) or lenses which show some focus shift; or maybe in a portrait session when you have just that chance to get the eyes dead in focus, or when wearing specs while using a 28mm..... It just makes the M10 into an even more versatile camera than it already is. I very happily use a Thumbie rather than a conventional thumb rest, which means that the flash shoe is still available for the EVF. It's cheap and Steve Barnett who makes them could get one to you fairly easily I imagine. If I were you I'd grab that used Visoflex while you can!

Christopher

Edited February 16, 2020 by Musotographer

[MikeMyers]

'Musotographer' - what you write makes too much sense, and the chance of finding a used Visoflex is probably pretty minimal.  Anyway, it's now on order.  Thanks, I think???   :-)

What is a "Thumbie" ?????   .........ok, solved:  https://lavidaleica.com/content/m8m9-thumbie

I think that when I want to use the Visoflex, I can just remove the Leica thumb rest I bought.  

So, my M10 now can replace my D750 for even more applications ?

[Probus5002]

Congratulations.  I endorse the comments above.  I have never had the need to use a Visoflex for my 35/1.4 because the frame lines fill the view finder.  I have a WATE and a 135/4 and  recently bought the Visoflex mainly for the telephoto lens.  I prefer to keep the thumb rest on the camera and try not to use Live View except for the WATE (I use the half case).  I admire your self discipline not to fire off some files until today.  I found the M10 to be very intuitive and it soon became second nature in the hand.  I have an X-Pro 2 and wonder why that camera needs so many buttons.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

 I can see the full frame without my glasses, but I didn't when I put my glasses on.  As to glasses, I am sure I will have the same problem with the M10 as I did with my Fuji and Canon, that I couldn't see the rear display very well - it was always out of focus.  This came up while I was at the eye hospital I volunteer at, and they solved the problem for me.  They made a set of progressive lenses, with the top half of the lens being "distance", which quickly changed into a very close prescription so I can clearly read the menu and check focus.  With these glasses and the M10, I can't come close to seeing the full frame lines for my 35mm lens.  I can see the 50mm frame lines perfectly though.

On the other hand, while my 35mm lens has become my "normal" lens on the M8.2, it is back to being "too" wide to be my normal lens on the M10.  I put the 35 back on the M8.2, put the 50 on the M10, and all is well.  Now I can see the 50mm frame lines just fine, even with my glasses on.  Thanks - I hadn't really thought this out until just now.

 

I addressed this above, along with some other tips.

Jeff

[MikeMyers]

'Probus5002', I have my Nikon D750 with menus inside of menus inside of menus.  They did allow me to completely customize my camera to the point where I rarely needed to go back into the menus, but it felt overly complicated....   but I guess some photographers want/need that kind of control.  I very much like what Fuji did with the X100f, as it too had an overwhelming number of menus, but most of the buttons and controls were user programmable.  So, I set one to turn on my Neutral Density Filter, and I used another to switch between RAW and JPG, and the others I sort of ignored.  I love that camera, but mostly because was made to be so much like a Leica M.  I can't really believe that I stole the memory card from it to feed to my M10, but I can easily buy another SD card.  I like my Canon G7X Mk II Pro camera, because it sort of fits on my belt, and I can more or less always have it with me.  It goes from 24mm to  around 120mm, and the images are good enough that I can crop as needed.  I'm sure there will be times in the future where I'll still be using it, maybe.  

After working with the M10 for just a couple of days, there aren't that many things I would miss in the menu system.  All the video related stuff is gone, because it has no video.  All the flash menus are gone for the same reason.  I guess I won't know for sure, for a while yet.

One thing I may miss - I have fallen in love with the benefits of a polarizing filter.  I can hold it in my hand, in front of my other cameras, and get better sky colors, remove reflections from the side of cars, etc., and lots of other things.  I guess I can hold it in front of my Leica lens the same way.  If I did find a way to mount it on my lenses, then I'd need "Live View" or the Visoflex to adjust it.  But that's minor.  

I'm not sure if I'm dealing with "self discipline", as I've tried to make it a habit to read the instructions before using things.  When I don't, I miss out on things that I don't learn about until much later.  Even so, I miss things.  I read the instructions on the M8.2, but somehow skipped over the "exposure lock" setting.  On another reading, I found that - wow, that's cool.  Wish I had known about it earlier.  

I tend to keep my old cameras, or give them away.  They're not worth enough to sell.  I guess that's why I still have my old film cameras (Leica, Nikon, Contax) and my film and digital Nikon SLR cameras - along with a drawer full of lenses.  B&H sells an adapter to allow me to use my Nikon F lenses on my Leica.  I haven't ordered it yet, but I'm tempted.  DAG has an adapter that allows my Leica lenses to focus closely - on the M10, I can see that being quite useful.

I have two main hobbies - Photography, and Bullseye Shooting.  Also, long trips to India to do volunteer work at Aravind Eye Hospital.  Between them, I seem to never have "free time".  (India is great though, as I'm always finding lovely scenes to photograph, the the local people mostly ignore, just as I ignore similar scenes at home.....)

[photophile]

Leica makes ( made?) a polarizer for the M lenses - a rather clever device that fit on the end of the barrel and swiveled up. One viewed through it in the "up" position with the bare eye, adjusted the filter to adapt the amount of polarization desired by turning the filter portion and then swiveled the unit back down so the glass covered the lens again effectively reproducing the desired polarization in the  field of view of the lens. The unit has a thumb screw on the periphery allowing it to adapt to a variety of barrel sizes. I use mine on my 35 and 50 cron - with great frequency. It has a "built-in" lens hood as well. See internet image here: http://www.chapterlux.com/shop/leica-polarizer-pl-filter-13352-fit-e39-lens-35mm-pre-a/

Enjoy your new tool. Great camera...

Best, Coos

[MikeMyers]

44 minutes ago, photophile said:

Leica makes ( made?) a polarizer for the M lenses - a rather clever device that fit on the end of the barrel and swiveled up. One viewed through it in the "up" position with the bare eye, adjusted the filter to adapt the amount of polarization desired by turning the filter portion and then swiveled the unit back down so the glass covered the lens again effectively reproducing the desired polarization in the  field of view of the lens. The unit has a thumb screw on the periphery allowing it to adapt to a variety of barrel sizes. I use mine on my 35 and 50 cron - with great frequency. It has a "built-in" lens hood as well. .......

B&H had a used one for $50, and a new one for $550.  I bought the used one - I can't visualize how it works, but I guess I'll find out.  Thanks!!!

[MikeMyers]

I have an old 50mm Summicron lens on the M10 right now.   I think I need to tell the camera what lens is on it.  When I go to "Lens Detection" in the menu, I think I'm supposed to select "Manual M" for the lens type?  Once I do that, and scroll down to 50m f/2, I get lots of choices, starting with 11817, 11819, 1825, 11826, and 11816.   What do those numbers mean, and how do I find out which one applies to my lens?  I assume I have to look up the serial number of the lens somewhere, #2433583.  Once I do all this, can I save it in the camera for the settings for this lens, or will I always need to go through this when I change lenses?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[farnz]

The 11817, 11819 etc is the model number of the lens.  You can work out which model you have by using the Leica Wiki that's accessible through the tab at the top of each of the forums pages. Leica Wiki page 2 for 50 Summicron-M.

Pete.

[adan]

The serial number you list indicates a 1970 lens (always keeping in mind that unused numbers can spill over into the next year(s) production, but that usually doesn't happen with high volume lenses like the 50 Summicron).

That would make it the version III (introduced 1969) which our poorly-maintained wiki describes as v. II - but at any rate either 11817 or 11819 will be correct.

The deal with the M10 is that you get one (1) freebie uncoded lens that can stay manually selected in the menu "for all time" - the camera will automatically switch to coded-lens mode if it detects a coded lens, and will automatically switch back to whatever is currently in the lens menu if it detects no lens coding.

If you have more than one uncoded lens - say, a 50 and a 35 - the camera will again always go back to the last code entered. Therefore swapping between uncoded lenses requires a simultaneous trip to the menu to keep the camera in sync with what is actually mounted.

You don't have to ID the lens at all - the camera will still take pictures. The lens simply won't show up in the file data (if you like to know what lens you used later on).

With certain wide-angle lenses, there may be image artifacts - but not with any 50mm lens.