R8 compatible with older R lenses?

[Norman Peritore]

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Hello R friends, I am thinking of springing for an R8, because I would love the diopter and hotshoe so I can use flashes (I am using an SL) and do studio work again. Would it support the trigger for   strobelights? 

I dont understand this cam business> These are my lenses, how much functionality will i lose on an R8 with them, and is it worth the investment? Ie can I still use A,T, or will I be limited to M?

Summicron R 1.2 50

Elmarit R 1.28 , 135

Vario Elmar R 3.4 28-70

they ar all amazing lenses, Walter Mandel was a genius!!

Here is one with an SL and Vario Elmar 28-70, 4 year old Portra 100

Thank you for any advice you can give! Patrick

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[gbealnz]

I have the SL, and 35/2, 50/2, and 90/2, all three lenses are "3-Cam". I also have an older 50/2, the series VI filter size, and it is "2-Cam".

My understanding is that the R8 must use 3 cam or later, R only is another style, as is ROM.

So, if your lenses are ROM (they likely won't be as ROM and the SL are not compatible), or R cam, again unlikely as the SL doesn't like then as well, then they will work perfectly on the R8. If they are 3-Cam, they will work on the SL, and the R8.

2 cam will not, I tried mine on an R8 that I owned a few years ago, no go.

You'll have to research the cams, and identify what the respective lenses you own are. If 3 cam, R cam only, or ROM, then yes. If they are 2 cam, or one cam, then no.

It's slightly confusing I agree, and I might have it wrong as well. Apologies if I do.

Gary

 

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[Ornello]

On an R8 or R9, you may use "3-cam", "ROM", or "third-cam only" lenses. On Leicaflex cameras, you may use only "3-cam" or "2-cam" lenses.

So, the solution is to make sure all your lenses are "3-cam", as they will function properly with all Leicaflex or R cameras.

[masjah]

Norman, just a small note to add to the above excellent advice. If you are buying further lenses, in my experience dealers have been known mistakenly to advertise R cam only lenses (sometimes called 3rd cam only lenses) as "3 cam". So it's worth checking with a dealer that when they say "3 cam" they really mean it!

[earleygallery]

Typical Leica obfuscation! The have a Leicaflex and R range but all use R lenses. But not all R lenses will fit all R mount cameras. You can have a 1 cam lens, a 2 cam lens, a 3 cam lens, and R only or 3rd cam only lens, oh and a ROM lens! 

This should help with identifying what cams your lenses have. 

https://www.keh.com/blog/leica-r-lenses-understanding-cams/

 

[Norman Peritore]

Yow! thank you for the help, you saved me buying an R8 that I cant use. Funny that all my R lenses fit on my Sony a72 with the adapter. 

A shame. I will stick to the SL which gives pretty results.

What to do about flash or studio lights?? Do you guys have any solution? 

Also, where in the world could I find a PHI 60 yellow filter or a red IR filter in case some Rollei IR film comes my way? Or is it duct tape? At least the camera will look less stealable!

Very best wishes, Patrick

PS pay attention Leica, issue an automated CL camera for film compatible with L, R, and M lenses. Make it in China so real humans can buy one. (we can dream cant we).

 

[Norman Peritore]

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PPS despite the cams, R lenses are becoming ridiculous in price because Cineasts are gobbling them up, the Elmarit 135 creates a beautiful Hollywood image, fabulous for the studio, Guess I have to photograph the poor model with all the lights on.

P

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

R8 needs the third cam.  So it can use older R lenses that have all three cams, or R lenses that only have the third cam (They're called "R only" or ROM). It cannot use lenses that just have the first or just first and second cam.  Leica went to three cam lenses or R only lenses with the introduction of the R3 in circa 1976.   ROM lenses are from the 90's (I believe) and only have the third cam.

Edited February 15, 2020 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[Ornello]

On 2/15/2020 at 11:56 AM, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

R8 needs the third cam.  So it can use older R lenses that have all three cams, or R lenses that only have the third cam (They're called "R only" or ROM). It cannot use lenses that just have the first or just first and second cam.  Leica went to three cam lenses or R only lenses with the introduction of the R3 in circa 1976.   ROM lenses are from the 90's (I believe) and only have the third cam.

 

No, ROM lenses have the electronic contacts in addition to the third cam.

 

On an R8 or R9, you may use "3-cam", "ROM", or "third-cam only" lenses. On Leicaflex Standard cameras, you may use "3-cam", "2-cam" or "1-cam" lenses. On Leicaflex SL & SL-2 cameras, you may use "3-cam", "2-cam" or "1-cam" lenses, but 1-cam lenses will not allow wide-open metering.

On R3, R4, R5, R6, and R7 cameras, you may use "3-cam" or "third-cam only" lenses.

So, the solution is to make sure all your lenses are "3-cam", as they will function properly with all Leicaflex or R cameras.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Ornello

[Norman Peritore]

amazing that Leica really screwed up the R line with these arbitrary changes. The M240 seems to be compatible with  all R lenses with the adapter, but who can afford one? Interesting that the M5,6,7 cost more than the M8 and M9! I love my M8, good color rendering and it lests in a bit more IR.

Thank you for the discussion.

Cheers, PATRICK

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

14 hours ago, Norman Peritore said:

amazing that Leica really screwed up the R line with these arbitrary changes. The M240 seems to be compatible with  all R lenses with the adapter, but who can afford one? Interesting that the M5,6,7 cost more than the M8 and M9! I love my M8, good color rendering and it lests in a bit more IR.

Thank you for the discussion.

Cheers, PATRICK

Similar to Nikon when they went from non-ai to ai to ai-s mount ect.  And didn't Canon drop their FD mount in the 80's?  They all did it.  Figuring out the R mount situation is not as complicated as it seems.  

[TomB_tx]

48 minutes ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

Similar to Nikon when they went from non-ai to ai to ai-s mount ect.  And didn't Canon drop their FD mount in the 80's?  They all did it.  Figuring out the R mount situation is not as complicated as it seems.  

Right. Pentax went from M42 thread to K-mount bayonet, and then several versions of the K to add features. Their Digitals can still take the original K-mount lenses, but deleted the linkage to sense the aperture setting. 

They all like to claim compatibility with old lenses so users will upgrade to the new body, but then find they need to buy new lenses to take full advantage of it. That's marketing.

So I find all my old SLR lenses are orphans with the manufacturers current bodies. So my R & K & N & FL all found a home on an A7.

[msh58]

Am 16.2.2020 um 16:35 schrieb Ornello:

 

No, ROM lenses have the electronic contacts in addition to the third cam.

 

On an R8 or R9, you may use "3-cam", "ROM", or "third-cam only" lenses. On Leicaflex Standard cameras, you may use "3-cam", "2-cam" or "1-cam" lenses. On Leicaflex SL & SL-2 cameras, you may use "3-cam", "2-cam" or "1-cam" lenses, but 1-cam lenses will not allow wide-open metering.

On R3, R4, R5, R6, and R7 cameras, you may use "3-cam" or "third-cam only" lenses.

So, the solution is to make sure all your lenses are "3-cam", as they will function properly with all Leicaflex or R cameras.

 

 

This is is all nicely summarized on the wikipedia page on Leica R bayonet. As you can see from this table, ROM lenses are also compatible with R3-R7. 

 

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[masjah]

15 hours ago, Norman Peritore said:

amazing that Leica really screwed up the R line with these arbitrary changes. The M240 seems to be compatible with  all R lenses with the adapter, but who can afford one? Interesting that the M5,6,7 cost more than the M8 and M9! I love my M8, good color rendering and it lests in a bit more IR.

Thank you for the discussion.

Cheers, PATRICK

Actually I don't see it as screwing up at all. Systems must evolve or else become obsolescent. Given that, I think Leica's backwards compatibility is logical. and as much as reasonably could be hoped for.

 

[solareslarrave]

Thanks to all of you who replied in this thread. Little did you know you'd spare me a sleepless night, wondering about what I did when I simply ordered a 3 cam lens for my R8 because I was told they were compatible but didn't understand how.

Now, I must get a 'cron 50 in addition to the zoom I scored.

Again, thanks!!

[jpattison]

In the above diagram of compatibility (thanks msh58), RED shows the Ronly and ROM lens as WILL NOT FIT because there is an annular step on the lens mount. This prevents any potential damage. Accessories such as the Macro Adapter-R and 2x converter are affected by this too.

John

[wlaidlaw]

There is a good article - accurate and well written here https://www.apotelyt.com/photo-camera/leica-r-mount on R lens compatibility with accompanying photos of the mounts with arrowed features pointed out. 

Wilson

[msh58]

Am 27.2.2021 um 06:00 schrieb jpattison:

In the above diagram of compatibility (thanks msh58), RED shows the Ronly and ROM lens as WILL NOT FIT because there is an annular step on the lens mount. This prevents any potential damage. Accessories such as the Macro Adapter-R and 2x converter are affected by this too.

John

There are a couple of extra incompatibilities you may run into:

1. The lens mount on the first version of R-bellows (16 860) is like the mount on the Leicaflexes. Therefore, R-only and ROM versions of lenses won't mount on it. The bellows unit mounts on  R cameras as far as I know, though.

2. The same applies to the extension rings (14158).

There is a rare later automatic bellows unit BR8 (16 880) which works with 3-cam, R only, and ROM lenses. 

- Matti

[wlaidlaw]

It took me 2 years to find a BR-2/16880 at a price I did not need to take out a second mortgage for. I have added a Novoflex Castel-COP slide duplicator to it. I use it usually with a Novoflexar 60mm Macro lens in R mount. There is a trick to using the APO 2 X extender with the R to L adapter and ROM lenses but it is so long since I did this that I am not 100% sure that I remember it correctly. Normally you mount the 2X extender on the camera (R to L adapter in this case) and then the lens on the extender but I don't think this works as the adapter does not move one of the cams correctly and the lens will not mount. I think you have to hold the aperture cam on the extender away from its spring loaded position and mount it on the lens. Then mount the extender and lens on the adapter. I will check tomorrow. I did post this before with photos on the R Forum but some considerable time ago. 

Wilson

PS I have two R fit lenses with no cams at all. The 500-MR Telyt and an 80mm/2.8 Hartblei Super Rotator Tilt/shift lens. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by wlaidlaw

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[msh58]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb wlaidlaw:

It took me 2 years to find a BR-2/16880 at a price I did not need to take out a second mortgage for. I have added a Novoflex Castel-COP slide duplicator to it. I use it usually with a Novoflexar 60mm Macro lens in R mount. There is a trick to using the APO 2 X extender with the R to L adapter and ROM lenses but it is so long since I did this that I am not 100% sure that I remember it correctly. Normally you mount the 2X extender on the camera (R to L adapter in this case) and then the lens on the extender but I don't think this works as the adapter does not move one of the cams correctly and the lens will not mount. I think you have to hold the aperture cam on the extender away from its spring loaded position and mount it on the lens. Then mount the extender and lens on the adapter. I will check tomorrow. I did post this before with photos on the R Forum but some considerable time ago. 

Wilson

PS I have two R fit lenses with no cams at all. The 500-MR Telyt and an 80mm/2.8 Hartblei Super Rotator Tilt/shift lens. 

It took me a long time as well to find the BR2/16880. After another longish search I was able to locate a reasonably-priced  BR2 version of the Macro-Elmar 100/4 (11 270) which allows open-aperture metering. They exist but are rare. It seemed they are not much wanted because the price of the lens in a like-new condition was $300.