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Jon Warwick

SL2 or S1R?

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I know several of you own both cameras, and would appreciate your help.

A key reason for me entering the L Mount alliance is to access the SL prime lenses, given their combined qualities of sharpness + smooth rendering seems to far eclipse anything I’ve seen before (including my M 50 APO).

When using the SL primes, do you see any compatibility benefit - specifically in terms of image quality (higher sharpness, less smearing, less artefacts etc) of using them as part of the imaging chain on a Leica SL2, as opposed to the Panasonic S1R? 
One assumes the SL2 and SL primes are “ultra fine tuned” for one another, but does this create any visible difference?
 

Edited by Jon Warwick

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I have tested both cameras side by side and the SL2 seems to be slightly sharper then the S1R, this could be because the SL2 has 1 less layer of glass in front of its sensor. Auto focus however is much better on the S1R, so if you need snappy autofocus then the s1r is better. The S1r also has an articulating screen if you need to hold it over head or waist level shooting. Personally holding the S1R was like handling a PC with a lens but thats a personal preference. Video wise the S1r codecs are meh, only 8bit internal so pretty much useless and it doesn't even offer 10bit HDMI out. The 10bit 4:2:2 HD internal on the SL2 is amazing. Plus you have to think any value savings on the front end with the price difference between the S1R and SL2 will be negated right away in used value, the S1R will tank like the Titanic while the SL2 will most likely retain its value for at least 2 years beyond the S1R. There is something to be said for the joy of handling a camera, the S1R brings no joy to me and feels like a workaday nuts and bolts camera, the SL2 is light years ahead of all brands when it comes to look and feel. 

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I still own both. The only time I’ve used the S1R since buying the SL2 is when I’ve needed to shoot flash. Both make great photos but the SL2 is vastly better in the hand. The206 was spot on... the S1R feels like a PC with a lens. The SL2 feels like a Leica!

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In another thread a member reports a problem with a Summilux 24mm on a Panasonic. The problem is not solved yet.

Edited by jankap

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4 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Coming from SL to S1r to SL2 - same here - I really enjoy using the SL/SL2 over the S1r. S1r worked fine for me, but felt somewhat overloaded with buttons etc.

The SL2 I want to take in my hands even if I dont take photographs ;)

 

+1  I went from SL to the S1R back to SL and then to SL2.  Nothing wrong with the S1R, a great camera, but I missed the simplicity of the SL and had no regrets selling the S1R.

I'm really enjoying the SL2 now.

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I kept the S1R because of its superior flash support, but prefer the SL 2 otherwise. 

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If you ask this question on a Leica forum do you honestly expect an unbiased answer that is of any value ?

Personally if you said I could only keep one it would be the S1R.

Having said that I have both and am keeping both ..... each has it’s own strengths and benefits for particular uses.

When it comes to SL primes there is not a scrap of difference in image quality as far as I can see in using the 75/2, 50/1.4 and 50/2.

If the lenses follow the L mount specifications performance should only differ minimally between the various bodies. The SL2 and S1R use the same sensor and any cover differences should only really be apparent when using m mount lenses.

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Sean Reid (reidreviews.com) has made an extensive studio scene comparison with SL, SL2, and S1R using a 35/2.0 APO lens. He observed some slight difference in image quality (vignetting) between S1R and SL2, most likely caused by S1R's thicker glass stack. 

I own both cameras. When deciding which camera to pick up, image quality difference is not significant enough for me to be a criterion.

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I have the S1R... and have no desire to switch to the SL2. 
 

What I’m getting out of the S1R with SL glass is amazing. The SL2 surely has a lot going for it, but I don’t see the value in it unless you use wide M glass.

I paid under 2K for a LIKE NEW S1R... 

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I thought that both the SL2 and the S1R can be powered externally to operate for arbitrarily long periods using the external USB port.  But I have checked on my SL2 -- external power does nothing until the camera is switched off; then it recharges the battery.  And in fact the instruction manual only promises in-camera battery charging.  The S1 and S1R are supposed to support external USB power, aren't they?

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Does the S1r provide AF-C with the Sigma 35/1.2? when selling my 35/1.2 L mount, a buyer claimed it does not allow AFC on the S1r.  
 

The Sigma 35/1.2 certainly is one of the strongest lenses on the L mount as well.  The 35 Cron’s rendering is much different wide open (F1.2 vs f2), but stopped down the 35 Sigma keeps up well (some may say outpaces) the 35 Cron in terms of resolution.  thus if you shoot 35mm fov quite a bit, you may be limited by the S1r.  
 

@Jon Warwick this may effect your choice (the ability of the S1r to use the Sigma L mount lenses).  Without the Sigma lenses, I’d have a difficult time filling out focal lengths for my SL2 at Leica’s prices.   

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57 minutes ago, NRKstudio said:

Does the S1r provide AF-C with the Sigma 35/1.2? when selling my 35/1.2 L mount, a buyer claimed it does not allow AFC on the S1r.  
 

The Sigma 35/1.2 certainly is one of the strongest lenses on the L mount as well.  The 35 Cron’s rendering is much different wide open (F1.2 vs f2), but stopped down the 35 Sigma keeps up well (some may say outpaces) the 35 Cron in terms of resolution.  thus if you shoot 35mm fov quite a bit, you may be limited by the S1r.  
 

@Jon Warwick this may effect your choice (the ability of the S1r to use the Sigma L mount lenses).  Without the Sigma lenses, I’d have a difficult time filling out focal lengths for my SL2 at Leica’s prices.   

Well I know different body (S1) and different L mount Sigma lens, but my Sigma 50mm 1.4 L Mount certainly AFC's with my Panasonic S1 so I find it hard to imagine why the 35mm 1.2 doesn't.

 

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6 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

I thought that both the SL2 and the S1R can be powered externally to operate for arbitrarily long periods using the external USB port.  But I have checked on my SL2 -- external power does nothing until the camera is switched off; then it recharges the battery.  And in fact the instruction manual only promises in-camera battery charging.  The S1 and S1R are supposed to support external USB power, aren't they?

There are various reviews of the SL2 showing external power during operation.  One cannot charge the battery until shut off, but one can keep shooting all day.  See at about the 6:50 mark...

Jeff

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She did some astro photography, with long exposures, and some time lapse work, so clearly she had the right charger for the job.  I redid my experiment, this time successfully, using an iPad Pro charger.  My Anker 10,000, which did not charge the SLK22 battery while it was running, doesn't have a PD interface to switch on the higher voltage (the camera is looking for 9 V).  So Leica is leaving all of this a bit mysterious.  Perhaps they see another source of confusion similar to what happened once they started trying to help us all pick "good" SD cards, and found that SD cards aren't all the same.

Panasonic makes a clear recommendation that if you want external power you should by the AC to DC converter that they sell for the GH-5 and plug its output into a battery-shaped converter that replaces you original battery.  (Olympus and others have something like this.  I used it a while back to get power consumption waveforms to see how my E-1 did its power management.)   And there must be some concern about electrical noise when you use a switching regulator to create 15-25 watts of power for a camera.  Panasonic issues its AC adapter used only for charging batteries away from the camera with a USB C to C cord that has two ferrite RF absorbers to quiet it. 

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On 2/11/2020 at 5:06 PM, thighslapper said:

If you ask this question on a Leica forum do you honestly expect an unbiased answer that is of any value ?

Personally if you said I could only keep one it would be the S1R.

Having said that I have both and am keeping both ..... each has it’s own strengths and benefits for particular uses.

When it comes to SL primes there is not a scrap of difference in image quality as far as I can see in using the 75/2, 50/1.4 and 50/2.

If the lenses follow the L mount specifications performance should only differ minimally between the various bodies. The SL2 and S1R use the same sensor and any cover differences should only really be apparent when using m mount lenses.

This should be pinned somewhere...

Exactly the TRUTH... from someone who has, and uses both cameras.

Well stated...

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I know the SL2 sensor is designed with only 2 glass elements.

Is that specifically to help M lens compatibility? Especially given, from the sound of it above, the image quality with SL glass sounds very similar between the SL2 and S1R?

Out of curiosity, if it’s now only 2 glass elements, were there 3 glass elements before on the SL (and still remain on other cameras like the S1R?), and what was the previous function of the glass element that is now omitted?

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14 minutes ago, Jon Warwick said:

I know the SL2 sensor is designed with only 2 glass elements.

Is that specifically to help M lens compatibility? Especially given, from the sound of it above, the image quality with SL glass sounds very similar between the SL2 and S1R?

Out of curiosity, if it’s now only 2 glass elements, were there 3 glass elements before on the SL (and still remain on other cameras like the S1R?), and what was the previous function of the glass element that is now omitted?

This from the very helpful Jono Slack's review, which may make things clearer for you. and yes it is all about M glass and particularly wide angle.

This is how I understand it.

The importance of micro lenses is very much over-egged as far as I can understand (Sean Reid would agree). The thickness of the coverglass stack is very much more important.

The microlense design  will help with vignetting and colour cast, but it is the coverglass stack which causes 'smearing' near the periphery.

The M10 actually only has 1 layer (IR Cut filter / protection)

the SL and SL2 have 2 (IR Cut filter and protection)

but the point and problem is to keep it thin enough to stop smearing.

 

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