hydet Posted February 8, 2020 Share #1 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) As we know, M10M images out of the camera are rather flat. I notice in other threads that some people process them in in LR or LR/ CC (using curves for example) and others are using Silver Efex. Curious how many people have found the Silver Efex plugin (or other Nik programs) helpful. Edited February 8, 2020 by hydet Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 Hi hydet, Take a look here M10M Post Processing. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jager Posted February 8, 2020 Share #2 Posted February 8, 2020 I think Silver Efex Pro (and the other Nik plug-ins) can on occasion provide an interesting effect. Emphasis on "on occasion." Most of the presets are a bit overdone, IMHO. I think to get the most out of digital files, including those from the Monochrom, requires a more conventional photo editing program like Lightroom or Capture One. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrMi Posted February 8, 2020 Share #3 Posted February 8, 2020 I use Lightroom, Photoshop and Silver Efex Pro (SEP) in combination. Most of times I do not use SEP presets, but adjust the SEP sliders manually and use control points when necessary. SEP is much more than just presets. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningheart Posted February 8, 2020 Share #4 Posted February 8, 2020 I am a Capture One user with post processing and once finished transfer to Photoshop where I have plugins including Silver Efex to use if I choose. When doing post with MM1 and M246 I usually did some curve adjustments, shadows, and highlights. I always found those files a little flat out of camera. I was using Capture One ver 8 through 12 then. Prior to buying my M10M I upgraded to Capture One 20 started using the Black and white sliders too. Once I had the M10M I found that as you mentioned rather flat, I found them flatter than the MM1 and M246. Mind you those first few days was overcast. In post I found that I was just using the black slider, white slider with a touch of contrast which took them a lot further than curves as I had done with previous cameras. Some shots I have used curves and masking to bring it further but I have yet to use any plugins with the M10M files. Granted Capture One 20 does not have the M10M listed as a supported camera. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted February 8, 2020 Share #5 Posted February 8, 2020 My M10M is my first digital monochrom. Arrived Thursday and (having read various threads over the years about 'flat' monochrom files) decided to post process them in a similar way to how I post process my b&w film files. In other words, import them into LR Classic, click the auto button then make minor adjustments on the sliders to suit my desired output. Works for me! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
icon80 Posted February 8, 2020 Share #6 Posted February 8, 2020 I am using Capture One 20. As mentioned above, it does not list the M10 M as a supported camera. I am having increasing success just using the basic editing controls within the C1 interface - including the black and white sliders, contrast etc, as mentioned above. The grain effects in C1 are very good. In addition, the application allows layers, which is good for local edits, such as dodging or burning. Since taking delivery of the M10 M, I have also purchased Silver Efex Pro (SEP), which came as part of a DXO application package. I have found the interface with C1 20 to be very awkward, whilst not giving me much more, apart from a bunch of presets. In addition, I find that the file sizes increase massively once they return to C1 after editing in SEP - not worth it, unless I can find a better way to implement SEP with C1. Still a work in progress, but I am becoming happier with how much I can do in Capture One 20. There are other third party presets and styles for C1 apart from SEP which work perfectly well. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 8, 2020 Share #7 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Very flat light (selfie, car window) 50mm apo-summicron-m ISO 12,500 f/6.8 1/750 sec Lightroom white clip +95, black clip -65, shadows +100, clarity +46 I purposefully blew the highlights, so please no comments on how the camera blows highlights. The photographer blows the highlights, not the camera, whether on purpose or not. Between photographer and camera, only one has a brain. I have found that files from flat light require hard pushing to get decent contrast, more than with M9M or M10. Plus, this was a reflection off of glass, which made it all the more flat and very light. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 9, 2020 by Likaleica 5 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/306250-m10m-post-processing/?do=findComment&comment=3908992'>More sharing options...
Ken Abrahams Posted February 8, 2020 Share #8 Posted February 8, 2020 I use LR to add sharpness and lens profile only then go to Photoshop for curves and tonal processing using layers and masking tools. Depending on the type of image I will further process in Silver Effex but not always. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted February 9, 2020 Share #9 Posted February 9, 2020 15 hours ago, SrMi said: I Most of times I do not use SEP presets, but adjust the SEP sliders manually and use control points when necessary. SEP is much more than just presets. I agree. I will occasionally use a preset as a starting point and then adjust the image to taste using the sliders and control points. Then I save the adjustments as my own preset for landscapes, portraiture, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olegn Posted February 9, 2020 Share #10 Posted February 9, 2020 I' want to find a coach for 1-2 small online lessons on monochrome PP, so would be glad if someone from the forum can do it for me for some price (PM please). Yes i know there is endless video tutorials about this - i just want a live talk with someone passionate about Leica Monochromes Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 9, 2020 Share #11 Posted February 9, 2020 I've read several comments in different threads stating that, compared to M9M or M246 images, the M10M files look flatter or have less DR or blow the highlights easily or are softer or are just plain boring. That's all true, but I don't think it's the camera/sensor. Processing these files is much different than earlier Monochrom versions. There is just so much data to work with that I don't think many people have really mastered a workflow yet. I know I haven't. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted February 9, 2020 Share #12 Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, olegn said: I' want to find a coach for 1-2 small online lessons on monochrome PP, so would be glad if someone from the forum can do it for me for some price (PM please). Yes i know there is endless video tutorials about this - i just want a live talk with someone passionate about Leica Monochromes Each Monochrom is a little different so can you specify which camera? I'm sure someone near your time zone would be willing to do this for free. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olegn Posted February 9, 2020 Share #13 Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Likaleica said: Each Monochrom is a little different so can you specify which camera? I'm sure someone near your time zone would be willing to do this for free. M9M for now, but also interested in some advices for M10M because i'm close to buy it. Time zone is not a issue - i can adjust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted February 10, 2020 Share #14 Posted February 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Likaleica said: I've read several comments in different threads stating that, compared to M9M or M246 images, the M10M files look flatter or have less DR or blow the highlights easily or are softer or are just plain boring. That's all true, but I don't think it's the camera/sensor. Processing these files is much different than earlier Monochrom versions. There is just so much data to work with that I don't think many people have really mastered a workflow yet. I know I haven't. Agree 100%. I am getting closer but still have a ways to go. That is part of the fun and challenge. If I could just hit one button and make the image pretty it wouldn't be nearly as exciting. The files are without a doubt significantly more robust than either previous Monochrom. It is EASILY the best Monochrom to date by a long stretch in my opinion and I love the MM1. 3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 10, 2020 Share #15 Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/9/2020 at 6:41 AM, Likaleica said: Lightroom white clip +95, black clip -65, shadows +100, clarity +46...I have found that files from flat light require hard pushing to get decent contrast, more than with M9M or M10... I think that having a flat file is good as a starting point for getting the results you want, the same way having a flat negative is used for darkroom printing. However, having to go +95/ white and -65 black and +100 shadows means going almost all the way on these sliders — to achieve a relatively low contrast image, going by the image posted. What does this mean for someone who wants to make high contrast images? I heard the M10M files called highly malleable — but are they really malleable if you have to go almost all the way on these LR sliders just for a relatively low contrast? How do you then get high contrast? I assume it can be done.________________________Frog Leaping photobook Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2020 Share #16 Posted February 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: I think that having a flat file is good as a starting point for getting the results you want, the same way having a flat negative is used for darkroom printing. However, having to go +95/ white and -65 black and +100 shadows means going almost all the way on these sliders — to achieve a relatively low contrast image, going by the image posted. What does this mean for someone who wants to make high contrast images? I heard the M10M files called highly malleable — but are they really malleable if you have to go almost all the way on these LR sliders just for a relatively low contrast? How do you then get high contrast? I assume it can be done.________________________Frog Leaping photobook Contrast curve. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 10, 2020 Share #17 Posted February 10, 2020 Jeff - Is this something that will change when Lightroom supports the M10M and has an M10M profile? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2020 Share #18 Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nowhereman said: Jeff - Is this something that will change when Lightroom supports the M10M and has an M10M profile? The contrast curve? That’s up to you; otherwise it’s quite linear digitally (default DNG), unlike film characteristic curves, but easily adjusted. It’s one of the most powerful tools for b/w. Sliders can do part of the work, but I prefer to start with a better overall tone curve. One can of course establish presets or default changes, as with other tools, for better starting points. Besides global adjustments, much can be gained by local adjustments. For me, each image demands its own attention based on desired print/paper rendering. High key? Low key? Everything in between. One size doesn’t fit all. Same as in film/darkroom days. Not plug and play. Jeff Edited February 10, 2020 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nowhereman Posted February 10, 2020 Share #19 Posted February 10, 2020 Yes, I agree and am familiar with LR, which I use all the time. I process images individually. However, I've tried a couple of M10M files that Chaemono provided here. What I found is that it's easy to increase the contrast of the flat OOC file, but my feeling is that, yes, you have to make large moves in the sliders, or contrast curve, to get to a "normal contrast" image, as stated above; but the scope for going beyond that into various types of high contrast looks, or low key/high key looks, seems somewhat limited — and this is just an impression: an impression that you can't go into as wide a range of looks as you can with the M10. Maybe because with the M10 you can also use the color slides as virtual filters. So I'm wondering about two things: first, is my impression wrong and, second, will the scope for different looks change when LR supports the M10M? On the latter, if I understand correctly what you say, the answer is no.________________________Frog Leaping photobook Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 10, 2020 Share #20 Posted February 10, 2020 I own the M10 and the M9M (and before that, the M8.2 and M240). While out-of-camera default settings might differ, there is hardly a limit for any with regard to rendering styles. I haven’t used the M10M, but unless something is drastically wrong, I’d be shocked if the same doesn’t apply. The ability to use color channels with the color based sensors is another matter; I vastly prefer the flexibility that offers, which is why I still use the M10 (and now SL2) for b/w, not just color, even with my MM. The latter provides a unique b/w mindset (like film days) and a special look at times (due to CCD? resolution bump?), but much depends on the specific picture, lighting, processing, etc. There is no magic bullet gear-wise. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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