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rivi1969

M9 strap order went bad... is this the way to treat customers?

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On 2/10/2020 at 6:49 PM, a5m said:

This reminded me of George and the Busboy on Seinfeld.

Soup "guy" on Seinfeld:  "No soup for you!!!"  Strap "gal" at Leica:  "No strap for you!!"

Humor aside, if Leica sent you the camera strap before they had received and verified payment, that is Leica's bugger-up, not rivi1969's. 

If I sell an item on ebay, I do not ship it until after I have received payment.  That's basic common sense.

In God We Trust, all others pay up front.

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6 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Soup "guy" on Seinfeld:  "No soup for you!!!"  Strap "gal" at Leica:  "No strap for you!!"

Humor aside, if Leica sent you the camera strap before they had received and verified payment, that is Leica's bugger-up, not rivi1969's. 

If I sell an item on ebay, I do not ship it until after I have received payment.  That's basic common sense.

In God We Trust, all others pay up front.

No strap was shipped to me. 

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8 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

If I sell an item on ebay, I do not ship it until after I have received payment.  That's basic common sense.

In God We Trust, all others pay up front.

A few years ago I bought an immaculate 35mm f/2.8 Summaron (from a member of another Leica forum). It was sent to me the same day as we had agreed on a price, before I had the opportunity to pay. That's trust for you 🙂 And I'm not god. Not even a minor one. 😇

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5 hours ago, ianman said:

A few years ago I bought an immaculate 35mm f/2.8 Summaron (from a member of another Leica forum). It was sent to me the same day as we had agreed on a price, before I had the opportunity to pay. That's trust for you 🙂 And I'm not god. Not even a minor one. 😇

Well, he was extremely lucky to deal with you. Trust has to be built, if he didn’t know you he was almost innocent and prone to be scammed in the future. There are lots of opportunists looking for victims.

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1 hour ago, rivi1969 said:

Well, he was extremely lucky to deal with you. Trust has to be built, if he didn’t know you he was almost innocent and prone to be scammed in the future. There are lots of opportunists looking for victims.

Unfortunately you are most probably right.

Maybe he just felt it would be ok. I had never interacted with him before other than in the occasional thread but we had both been members on the other forum for years so maybe that helped.

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On 2/15/2020 at 2:36 AM, Herr Barnack said:

[...]if Leica sent you the camera strap before they had received and verified payment, that is Leica's bugger-up, not rivi1969's. 

If I sell an item on ebay, I do not ship it until after I have received payment.  That's basic common sense.

In God We Trust, all others pay up front.

That is a bit silly. If one commits to buy, one commits to pay. Common sense is one thing, but many internet shops do offer the option of after-pay or billing after dispatch. There is a difference between a private seller and a company.

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8 hours ago, jaapv said:

That is a bit silly. If one commits to buy, one commits to pay. Common sense is one thing, but many internet shops do offer the option of after-pay or billing after dispatch. There is a difference between a private seller and a company.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be silly or belligerent or whatever. 

Maybe they do things differently in Germany from what we're accustomed to here in the U.S. 

No Leica dealer I've ever bought from will ship your order until your bank card payment clears, even if it's something low cost like a lens cap...

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I often use afterpay or billing on the Internet. 

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On 2/16/2020 at 1:13 PM, jaapv said:

I often use afterpay or billing on the Internet. 

I would not offer this whether I was selling Leica’s or candy bars. Maybe my view of the world/people is much less positive and trusting. 
 

To make sure that I am understanding,  are you saying you can order something without providing a credit card, cash, or bank wire and they will ship an item? When do they expect you to provide the payment? After the item ships?

Edited by dkmoore

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Yes, quite a few webshops- -not all-  offer this service, and in the BtB sector virtually all of them. They will mail you an invoice, pay within a fortnight or so,  often with an Ideal link (Ideal is the Dutch bank internet payment service, quite simple with a QR code) or an Afterpay link.  (QR code again)  Some charge a small amount for this, most do not. Our Dutch "Amazon",  Bol.com set the trend, and the rest had to follow. Shops selling expensive items like cameras don't usually, except for known customers in some cases, and for business customers.

For instance  this one will ship on invoice (you'll find "achteraf betalen" = "pay after delivery") in the description when you drop it in the shopping basket)

 

https://www.bol.com/nl/p/leica-dg-vario-elmar-100-400mm-f4-0-6-3-asph-milc-slr-telezoomlens-zwart/9200000054689610/?suggestionType=browse&bltgh=m4xM71w9xdi3gFXAORdCHA.1_2.10.ProductTitle

 

I guess there is more than an ocean dividing the continents...

 

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Also in Germany it is very common that you can order goods, even as a first time customer without paying upfront, but with an invoice included/attached to the shipment, with payment terms of 10 or 14 days. I suppose, most customers pay in time, if you forget, well, a reminder will come and if you finally don't pay, you get a negative credit score which eventually can run you in deep trouble...

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Indeed it does seem very common for German seller to offer that, even to international customers. Within the EU anyway.

Another common payment method is payment upon delivery. Just pay when the parcel shows up and you get your goods.

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I have just come across this thread. In this case the purchaser made an 'invitation to treat', but no contract of sale existed as he did not pay the necessary 'consideration'. Accordingly, there were no further steps which Leica could have taken. This is the way it is in most countries, whether they are common law or civil law administrations. The response from Leica was poor, particularly in the context of the international environment in which they trade. Hopefully, they will take steps to ensure that this will not take place again as customer trust and sentiment are hard to recover once they are lost.

As for the purchaser, he was more than a little 'loose' in his approach, but he did not do anything that was legally wrong apart from wasting the time of the seller. 

Now as for why anyone would want to put a rope strap on a Leica, well I suppose it takes all sorts etc My personal opinion, of course.

William

Edited by willeica

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On 2/17/2020 at 6:36 AM, Herr Barnack said:

Sorry, wasn't trying to be silly or belligerent or whatever. 

Maybe they do things differently in Germany from what we're accustomed to here in the U.S. 

No Leica dealer I've ever bought from will ship your order until your bank card payment clears, even if it's something low cost like a lens cap...

A few years ago, Ken Hansen asked me if I would like a hard to get silver chrome 50 Summilux ASPH.  I said yes, and he sent it to me (from NY to NZ) and told me to pay him later ...

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1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

A few years ago, Ken Hansen asked me if I would like a hard to get silver chrome 50 Summilux ASPH.  I said yes, and he sent it to me (from NY to NZ) and told me to pay him later ...

But did he know you are a judge?  Where is the risk there?  🤣

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17 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Didn’t know me from Adam ...

Respect to Ken!

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1 hour ago, M9reno said:

Respect to Ken!

At the LHSA event in Boston last October Ed Keating, Pulitzer Prize winning photographer, told us that when he was a 'starving' young photographer Ken Hansen used to give him Leicas with a requirement to pay him back 'whenever'. Jim Lager who had worked with Ken Hansen was present and did not demur.

The most fortuitous Leica acquisition story, however, is about English painter Nevill Johnson who came to Ireland in the late 1940s and applied for and received a grant from the Irish Arts Council to cover him for the cost of acquiring a Leica which he used to do 'street photography' in Dublin. I am not sure where the Leica is now, but his photos were very good.

William

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Honestly this whole situation is embarrassing and I cannot believe you came here to vent about not paying for a strap you ordered and then receiving a hostile email in regards to that.

Can I speak to the manager?

Edited by maxfairclough

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8 hours ago, jaapv said:

I guess there is more than an ocean dividing the continents...

 

For BTB that happens in the US via purchase order but certainly not for retail purchases. That practice would be exploited within minutes in the US. It would be far to detrimental to a business to offer this to private buyers in the US. 
 

 

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