Leica S lenses on SL

[ropo54]

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5 hours ago, aksclix said:

Hi all - any thoughts on the S 70 f2.5 on the SL2 body? Also, is it safe to buy an S 70 that had its AF motor changed? I already have the 120 Nd I do like it but wondering if the 70 would be a good to have? I do have the 24-90 too so want to be sure the 70 would be a good investment 

All of the S lenses perform nicely on the SL. (Can't speak to the SL2, but, if anything the image stabilization should be a benefit). It's more compact than all of the other S lenses, and has a bit of a different character than the SL 75mm, though does not focus as quickly.

It should be safe to buy the S 70 with its AF motor changed.  Mine still works without issue not having had the change.

This photo was taken just outside of Leica Miami's store, when I first tried it out on the SL

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Edited October 14, 2020 by ropo54

[hoppyman]

6 hours ago, aksclix said:

Hi all - any thoughts on the S 70 f2.5 on the SL2 body? Also, is it safe to buy an S 70 that had its AF motor changed? I already have the 120 Nd I do like it but wondering if the 70 would be a good to have? I do have the 24-90 too so want to be sure the 70 would be a good investment 

Hi. It certainly does work. However why not just get the APO Summicron SL 75  instead? Unless you are also using the S system?  These new summicron SL lens have amazing performance wide open.

I guess you are looking for a used S lens due to lower price? As long as the AF has been fixed that should be fine. I will say that failed on mine and was fixed, but the central shutter also failed twice. That was my most used lens.

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[Jeff S]

Be sure that the AF fix includes the latest, ‘permanent’ fix.  Early replacements used the same weak part.  Good dealers, like Leica Miami, will only sell them with the latest fix and service/inspection.  And you get warranty and return policy.

But I’m with the others; unless you already have the S system, I would stick to SL primes.  The SL 75 is superb.  (Of course the S 70 has no crop factor on the SL; it acts as a true 70mm lens).  Remember to factor in the cost and size of the S/SL adapter.
 

Leica Miami has a series of 2 hour interactive discussions on the Red Dot Forum YouTube channel, including the pros and cons of using S lenses on the SL as well as the SL lens options.
 

Jeff 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Jeff S

[aksclix]

Thank you folks.. helpful insight..

yes the used price for 70 is almost half as much as the 75 SL lens and I already have the Leica S adapter for SL.. I was thinking about getting another S lens to go with my 120 macro.. I have the 70-200 f2.8 Panasonic lens and it is incredibly sharp..

I wish Leica MF had something like a 250 f4 on the GFX platform 

[Jeff S]

40 minutes ago, aksclix said:

I wish Leica MF had something like a 250 f4 on the GFX platform 

It was anticipated and discussed here about 7 years ago or so, even by David Farkas (owner Leica Miami), but never materialized.

Jeff

[ropo54]

In furtherance of the above discussion, yes, there are some fabulous prices on pre-owned S lenses (particularly as compared to the SL lenses).

 

Here's another with the SL and S120:

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Edited October 14, 2020 by ropo54

[John McMaster]

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3 hours ago, aksclix said:

Thank you folks.. helpful insight..

yes the used price for 70 is almost half as much as the 75 SL lens and I already have the Leica S adapter for SL.. I was thinking about getting another S lens to go with my 120 macro.. I have the 70-200 f2.8 Panasonic lens and it is incredibly sharp..

I wish Leica MF had something like a 250 f4 on the GFX platform 

You can adapt lenses, I have a Mamiya 645 300mm f2.8 which I use with a 2x converter if wanted.  With a LeiKo adapter R lenses can be used; 280mm f4.0 with 1.4x APO converter focusses to infinity, I also have the 1.4x APO Modular focussing tube adapter to S by Solms which gives me a 400mm f4.0 or 560mm f4.0 which can then have 1.4x or 2x APO converters added (if you have a stable enough tripod!)

john

[aksclix]

@ropo54 nice picture... sharp and nice colors.. I really like the 120 on the SL.. the balance feels nice and the IQ is great.. 

@John McMaster I am very spoiled with AF.. for telephoto needs I bought the 350mm f4.8.. I did like it initially but I am regretting the decision already as I found it extremely hard to track a moving subject (just a walking subject) it was handheld though.. maybe I should give it another shot with the monopod.. 
I almost bought the 280 f2.8 pre-module version and the manual focusing is keeping me from buying it.. 

and, the 70-200 pana lens does seem to be on par with Leica IQ.. atleast when I compared the 24-90 and 24-70 f2.8 hands on.. they were both identical in IQ.. I would've gotten the 90-280 but I will be honest.. I do not like the long tubular shape and size of that lens.. 350 telyt looks somewhat similar too.. it was an impulse buy.. I'll look up the Mamiya 300mm f2.8

 

[Jeff S]

7 hours ago, Jeff S said:

It was anticipated and discussed here about 7 years ago or so, even by David Farkas (owner Leica Miami), but never materialized.

 

Actually it was 2011 when David expressed little doubt about seeing an S 350, and possibly longer...

Jeff

[helged]

6 hours ago, aksclix said:

@ropo54 nice picture... sharp and nice colors.. I really like the 120 on the SL.. the balance feels nice and the IQ is great.. 

@John McMaster I am very spoiled with AF.. for telephoto needs I bought the 350mm f4.8.. I did like it initially but I am regretting the decision already as I found it extremely hard to track a moving subject (just a walking subject) it was handheld though.. maybe I should give it another shot with the monopod.. 
I almost bought the 280 f2.8 pre-module version and the manual focusing is keeping me from buying it.. 

and, the 70-200 pana lens does seem to be on par with Leica IQ.. atleast when I compared the 24-90 and 24-70 f2.8 hands on.. they were both identical in IQ.. I would've gotten the 90-280 but I will be honest.. I do not like the long tubular shape and size of that lens.. 350 telyt looks somewhat similar too.. it was an impulse buy.. I'll look up the Mamiya 300mm f2.8

 

+1 to @John McMaster s recommendation. 

For AF, long lens on S, check the Hasselblad 300mm f4.5 HC. The af is not fast, but it works. The af is not useful with the Hasselblad 1.7 extender, but you get longer reach. Sharpness is great, oof rendering a little busy.

The Mamiya 300mm f2.8 is great and not that large (albeit with a little busy oof rendering); and the sharpness remains fine with the 2x extender. A great lens!

The Leica 280mm f4 APO-TELYT-R is superb (with somewhat lower contrast compared with modern lenses, but sharpness/resolution is great already from f4).

Leica 400mm f2.8 APO-TELYT-R (solid version) is also superb, but  l a r g e  and heavy. I dont have experience with the modular system. 

I once had the Pentax 67 400mm f4, but it was prone to flare, so not very useful for me. 

[Stuart Richardson]

9 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Actually it was 2011 when David expressed little doubt about seeing an S 350, and possibly longer...

Jeff

In his defense, Leica's promotional photos from the S system had a number of lenses on a table, and the 350mm was among them. I think the lens was made as a prototype, but they decided that it would be too expensive and sold in too few numbers on the S system to make it economically feasible. It would have been great though! 180 is not super long on the S system, and of course, Leica under Karbe does not seem to be willing to compromise optical performance even the tiniest bit to make teleconverters...in terms of optical compromises, I would rather have a great prime with a TC than a zoom...

 

As for the 75mm, the 75mm S works well on the SL2, but personally if I did not already have one, I would get a 75mm SL, even at a higher price. If I was looking to save, I would get a 75mm m lens. You give up the AF (which is not too fast and also a bit loud on the 70mm S), and you get a dramatically more compact lens that is also likely a bit faster and, in the case of the 75mm APO, better corrected and flatter of field.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

In his defense, Leica's promotional photos from the S system had a number of lenses on a table, and the 350mm was among them. I think the lens was made as a prototype, but they decided that it would be too expensive and sold in too few numbers on the S system to make it economically feasible. It would have been great though! 180 is not super long on the S system, and of course, Leica under Karbe does not seem to be willing to compromise optical performance even the tiniest bit to make teleconverters...in terms of optical compromises, I would rather have a great prime with a TC than a zoom...

 

As for the 75mm, the 75mm S works well on the SL2, but personally if I did not already have one, I would get a 75mm SL, even at a higher price. If I was looking to save, I would get a 75mm m lens. You give up the AF (which is not too fast and also a bit loud on the 70mm S), and you get a dramatically more compact lens that is also likely a bit faster and, in the case of the 75mm APO, better corrected and flatter of field.

My comment was not intended to criticize David for his statement; that was the prevailing view. it says more to me about the place of the S system in the medium format market, and the camera industry in general,  since it was envisioned early on.  It’s hung in there, but barely.
 

I don’t use my M lenses on my SL2; no weather sealing for one, and they work and feel better for me on M bodies.  The only prime I own for the SL2 is the SL75, in large part because I never liked the 75mm frame lines on an M, but like the focal length.

Jeff

[John Smith]

6 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

As for the 75mm, the 75mm S works well on the SL2, but personally if I did not already have one, I would get a 75mm SL, even at a higher price. If I was looking to save, I would get a 75mm m lens. You give up the AF (which is not too fast and also a bit loud on the 70mm S), and you get a dramatically more compact lens that is also likely a bit faster and, in the case of the 75mm APO, better corrected and flatter of field.

I had the S adapter and tried out the 70mm on the SL2. While it might be argued that the 70mm brings a different, Summilux-M like rendering to the table, it felt like putting Chevy parts on a Ferrari. The SL75mm represents the best and latest of Leica's optics. Trading in an adapter, the 70mm, and some change for one would be a no brainer for me. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by John Smith

[Stuart Richardson]

Sorry Jeff, I did not really read it as a criticism, I was just providing context. Defense in general, not specific to your statement! Your point about weather sealing is a good one. I have never run in to much trouble with the sealing of M lenses or bodies in some light rain, but it is obviously tempting fate a bit. I still think the best choice is the 70mm SL, and then an M lens...even though the 70mm S lens was my most used lens on the S body, I have always had a bit of a love hate relationship with it. I find it very challenging as a lens for a lot of compositions because the field curvature makes the focus plane so variable that it can be difficult to put it exactly where it needs to be. It meant that I had to shoot it at 6.8 or above even though it is quite sharp on center wide open. This is likely a problem that I run into in Iceland much more readily than most people do, as so many of the subjects here are far away, full of high frequency detail, and more or less equidistant to the camera. I often find that if I focus at 300m, the sharpest point in the edges of the frame will be much closer...maybe 100 or fewer meters. The edges of the frame at 300m will be softer, but the center tack sharp.That is one of the things I really really like about the SL lenses. They are extremely sharp, but they also have much flatter fields, so they are consistent in their sharpness in this kind of work. The 75mm APO Summicron M is also. Aberration correction is always a balance, so I am sure that Leica was able to better correct other issues by allowing for a bit more field curvature...

Edited October 15, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[aksclix]

wow.. I think I should have joined this group before buying all the lenses
My gear right now.. 
SL2

24-90 f2.8-4 Leica
70-200 f2.8 Panasonic S PRO ("Certified" by Leica) + 2x TC + 1.4x TC (on the way)
11-23mm TL Lens (I have a GFX 50r and GF 23mm for landscape work)

120 f2.5 S lens with Leica adapter

Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 M mount with Novoflex adapter

105mm f1.4 Sigma for L mount

350mm f4.8 Telyt-R with novoflex adapter (not convinced with this purchase.. I guess I am spoilt by AF)

 

I am eyeing the 80mm f1.4 R lens now.. and would probably be my last for SL2

[ropo54]

SL w S120  

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[tom0511]

One more reason for using SL lens is AF speed which is much faster an also less noisy.

I think the S lenses render beautiful, but I would only use them if you a) allready own them/also have a S body or b) it is a focal negth you dont find as SL lens. (like the 120 Macro for example). I think 70/100/120/180 can make some sense. 24/30/35/45 are too big IMO anyways for using them on the SL.

[Stuart Richardson]

I agree with Tom. I have tried the wider lenses, and they do work very well, but they are very large in comparison to the native primes, as well as slower...the upcoming 21, 24 and 28mm APO Summicrons will probably be pretty spectacular, so I would definitely consider saving for one of those on the wide end, versus an S lens, unless you intend to use the S body as your main camera.

[aksclix]

thanks @tom0511 precisely why I have been on the fence about S lenses after purchasing the 120 S a while ago... I saw a 70mm for $1500 but I missed out on it.. I was trying to see if it will serve me anything that my 24-90 cannot do.. my assumption was that it wouldn't and so I never quite took the decision to buy it.. 

How does the R 80mm f1.4 compare to the new 75mm f2 SL lens? 

for landscape shots, I got a canon 11-24 which is exquisite and pretty sharp! 

I have the GFX 50r and 23mm wide angle for landscape too.. otherwise, I would have already gotten the SL 16-35 
I have the GF 250mm and GF 110mm f2 as well.. They're incredibly sharp and the medium format sensor makes it all the more awesome.. which is why I haven't gotten the SL 90 f2 or the S 180 lens 

If Leica thinks about a 300 f4 or something I'll probably go for it :)

 

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[Stuart Richardson]

1 hour ago, aksclix said:

How does the R 80mm f1.4 compare to the new 75mm f2 SL lens? 

 

I do not have the 80mm, but I have had the 75mm Summilux for many years and they are basically the same formula. At wide open, it has a lot of spherical aberration and some color fringing, longitudinal chromatic aberration and pronounced vignetting. It resolves detail but has a dreamy effect with very creamy bokeh. At about 2.5, it starts to have normal contrast and sharpens up on center. By 4 or 5.6 it is nice and sharp from edge to edge (maybe not on 47mp though...have not tested recently). I imagine that at f8 or so, the results will be pretty similar, but I suspect the 75mm APO Summicron will still have higher contrast and better resolution of fine detail. Closer to wide open, they are totally different lenses. The APO Summicron will be crisp and sharp from edge to edge at the point of focus. It will have no CA, no SA and minimal to no LCA. Vignetting and distortion are corrected in software. Physically, the 80mm is a bit bigger I believe...with a wider barrel, but it is a lens that handles nicely. The 75mm APO is compact (compared to most L mount or S lenses) and balances well on the SL2.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Stuart Richardson