Leica M10 - Frame lines

[Nachtmsk]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi,

I rented an M10 for a few days. Mostly to just check it out. There are no camera shops near me that stock leica M cameras.

I put a 35mm Summicron F2 on the M10.  It's an older lens from the 80's. Not coded. 
I went into the menu and identified the lens but the correct frame lines aren't showing up.  I can use the front lever to make them show up, but they don't appear automatically.

Anyone else notice this?

Also as I read, the viewfinder is more magnified then, say my .58 M6. Not sure how I feel about that yet. While wearing glasses it seems as though I see a fairly small picture area compared to the width of my 35.

 

Any thoughts and opinions on the magnified viewfinder, which I would guess is more of a .72 ?

 

Mike

 

 

 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[jdlaing]

First make sure the lens clicks into place. In other words don’t have your finger on the lens release button when you mount the lens.

[Nachtmsk]

14 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

First make sure the lens clicks into place. In other words don’t have your finger on the lens release button when you mount the lens.

Good advice. It was clicked in correctly.

But I've been playing around with it and found that after using the frame line lever, it doesn't always go back to it's default position when my 35 is on. I suspect it's sticking a bit. As I said, this is a used camera and I don't know how it's been treated.

 

Thanks.

 

[jdlaing]

1 hour ago, Nachtmsk said:

Good advice. It was clicked in correctly.

But I've been playing around with it and found that after using the frame line lever, it doesn't always go back to it's default position when my 35 is on. I suspect it's sticking a bit. As I said, this is a used camera and I don't know how it's been treated.

 

Thanks.

 

Gently exercise the frame line lever and it should free up with a little use. 

[adan]

Yes, the viewfinder magnification for the M10 was an increase - to 0.73x (but what's 0.01x between friends? )

It is more than the 0.68x in previous digital Ms, and a far cry from a 0.58x M6.

That is a benefit of the thinner body thickness (a shorter tunnel to view through), which Leica also enhanced by a larger front window and eyepiece diameter (won't take M6 screw-in diopters any more).

As someone who uses a 135 and a fast 75, the extra focus magnification is wonderful, and makes those lenses far more reliable in use - but - it does make things cramped at the wide end. I can just see the 35mm lines, and have given up trying to use a 28mm without an external finder (which the ~0.72x finder (M2-M4 cameras) was never really intended to handle).

____

As to the sticky framelines - it happens. The default position of the framelines (i.e. when no lens is mounted at all) should be 35mm/135mm. A very delicate torsion spring** holds the framelines at 35/135 unless a 28/50/75/90 lens is mounted, whereupon the lens flange pushes against the spring pressure to move the lines (and the frame selection lever) to another setting. The frame selection lever by itself can also override the flange and/or the spring.

The delicacy of the spring pressure means that even a tiny speck of dust or grime can jam the mechanism. It is also possible the previous owner never used a 35 or 135 lens, and thus the spring was constantly compressed for other focal lengths and lost some of its "springiness." Usually (as jdlaing mentions) "working" the frame selection lever can free any trapped dust and restore full movement - but sometimes not.

** something like the lightest spring shown here, at right - but even smaller: https://www.leespring.com/learn-about-torsion-springs

[Stein K S]

My M10 had very sticky frame selector straight out of the box. It loosened up a bit through use, but was finally serviced by Leica to get it totally right. Seems to be somewhat common as adan also describes.

[Nachtmsk]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, adan said:

As someone who uses a 135 and a fast 75, the extra focus magnification is wonderful, and makes those lenses far more reliable in use - but - it does make things cramped at the wide end. I can just see the 35mm lines, and have given up trying to use a 28mm without an external finder (which the ~0.72x finder (M2-M4 cameras) was never really intended to handle).

I tend to use 35 and 28 mostly, but I have a Q, so the 28 is covered. But that .73 is hard on wide angle shooters, particularly if you wear glasses, as I do. It never occurred to me that the viewfinder might be an issue. I'm going to shoot with it over the weekend and see. It might cause me to jump back to a good used M9. I really like the .58 of the M6, but I think the .68 would be good as well.

Or I might pick up a 50 and shoot with that. I was never a fan of shooting with a 50 (28 is my fav, even 24). But it would be a good exercise to try to see things through a 50.

 

On another note, I looked at your colorado seen site. Nice Halloween stuff. Assuming you shot it with an M. If, so, how do you feel using a flash on an "M"? I never have.

 

Thanks
Mike

 

[TomB_tx]

An M9 won't be better for wides. I have both M9 & M10, and although the 10 has slightly higher VF magnification, it also has larger eyepiece and greater eye relief (better for glasses). I wear glasses full time and can see the 35 frame slightly better on the M10. (28 isn't all visible on either)

I use mainly 35 and have used the various M models from M4 upward with .72 finders, always with glasses, and have never had a problem.

I do use 21 on occasion, and the M10 has the advantage of the 020 EFV attachment. While I prefer the M finder for focusing, I can focus fine with the 020 EVF and a 21, and it gives a bright view of exactly what the sensor will capture.

[adan]

37 minutes ago, Nachtmsk said:

On another note, I looked at your colorado seen site. Nice Halloween stuff. Assuming you shot it with an M. If, so, how do you feel using a flash on an "M"? I never have.

Thanks - actually the Halloween shots were made with a different "German Rangefinder" - an Agfa Super-Isolette 6x6 folder (sadly, now deceased, and replaced with a ca. 1990 Mamiya 6).

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Super_Isolette

With the limited ISO of film, and an f/3.5 lens (Tessar-type, so not great until f/11) - flash was required in that dusk/night-time setting. I co-operated with the inevitable by going for a Diane-Arbus/Weegee look, dropping the shutter speed to 1/8th for the sky or background, while the flash still froze camera/subject movement close-up.

I don't generally use flash on an M (especially with available f/1.4-2.0 lenses, and now the M10's ISO 10000 capability) - among other reasons because my hot shoe usually has a 21mm brightline viewfinder installed.

I do sometimes shoot studio flash on stands, with remote trigger - have done so with all my Ms back to M4-2. Kinda nice to actually see the flash-moment, rather than finder blackout.

 

[Nachtmsk]

4 hours ago, adan said:

Thanks - actually the Halloween shots were made with a different "German Rangefinder" - an Agfa Super-Isolette 6x6 folder (sadly, now deceased, and replaced with a ca. 1990 Mamiya 6).

Yeah, fun to play with different cameras. Recently got a Fuji 6 x 9 that I am shooting BW and getting slides made directly from the stock. Some guy in Iowa processes B&W positives.

You used to work at Rocky Mountain News? I probably met some of your people at  "NPPA Electronic Photojournalism Workshops" in the early 90's. I think we had one in Denver or Fort Collins. I used to shot for the NYT in NY.

Thanks again
M