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How Many with Sell their M10 for the M10R?


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You won't be happy for long. In a few years time there will be 120MP full-frame cameras around -  and you will be stuck with taking crappy shots with a mere 40 MP low resolution camera...😱 Take it from me - pursuing the latest and bestest in the quest for the holy technical grail has never produced a single decent photograph. The sufferers of this syndrome are stuck in the taking of "test shots". I agree with Luigi: An M8 it still perfectly capable of taking more than excellent shots - I

My take - if you cannot take a good photograph with 24 MP it is likely that you cannot with 40 either. The number of photographs that require such resolution is small, and the vast majority will not be taken by a Leica M. There are far better solutions for such images (read: Leica S, Hasselblad, Phase One, etc.) It makes sense for the Q2 as well, because of the mandatory cropping. The SL2, an argument can be made, this being Leica's professional offering that must cater to more specialized pho

My sweet spot is a 24mpx, had Q2 and got rid of it due to file size 

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7 hours ago, calijax said:

I probably wouldn't sell my M10 for the R but am very surprised by the resolution of the M10M files...I appreciate the extra resolution more than I thought I would.  

It is not the resolution you are seeing - it is the acuity.

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My take - if you cannot take a good photograph with 24 MP it is likely that you cannot with 40 either.
The number of photographs that require such resolution is small, and the vast majority will not be taken by a Leica M. There are far better solutions for such images (read: Leica S, Hasselblad, Phase One, etc.) It makes sense for the Q2 as well, because of the mandatory cropping. The SL2, an argument can be made, this being Leica's professional offering that must cater to more specialized photographic demands as well.- Still, I see little difference between the results from either SL or SL2 in the image threads-.
But the M?  Mainly marketing reasons and keeping up with the Joneses IMO.

So you will be able to see the pigeons on the top of the Empire State Building or the eyes of the fleas on your cat shot, at 100% on your screen - provided you used a solid tripod. And? Are you going to print to A1 to show them? Or crop the final image to 100% for Flickr?

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I recently took from the shelf my M8... unused for 2 years... and re-discovered that its modest 10Mpx  are more than sufficient for my typical output (A4 prints). 

Surely won't switch from my M240 just for more Mpixels... should I consider another body, my eyes are towards the CL, unless in some time they invent something "magic" (?) to revamp the M concept.

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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46 minutes ago, jaapv said:

My take - if you cannot take a good photograph with 24 MP it is likely that you cannot with 40 either.
The number of photographs that require such resolution is small, and the vast majority will not be taken by a Leica M. There are far better solutions for such images (read: Leica S, Hasselblad, Phase One, etc.) It makes sense for the Q2 as well, because of the mandatory cropping. The SL2, an argument can be made, this being Leica's professional offering that must cater to more specialized photographic demands as well.- Still, I see little difference between the results from either SL or SL2 in the image threads-.
But the M?  Mainly marketing reasons and keeping up with the Joneses IMO.

So you will be able to see the pigeons on the top of the Empire State Building or the eyes of the fleas on your cat shot at 100% on your screen - provided you used a solid tripod. And? Are you going to print to A1 to show them? Or crop the final image to 100% for Flickr?

I guess this sums it all up really.

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3 hours ago, GT2RS said:

Didn't buy the M10 because of low MP count. It would be great if Leica can put the Sony 64MP sensor. Either way I'll be happy as long as its 40MP or higher. 

You won't be happy for long. In a few years time there will be 120MP full-frame cameras around -  and you will be stuck with taking crappy shots with a mere 40 MP low resolution camera...😱
Take it from me - pursuing the latest and bestest in the quest for the holy technical grail has never produced a single decent photograph. The sufferers of this syndrome are stuck in the taking of "test shots".

I agree with Luigi: An M8 it still perfectly capable of taking more than excellent shots - I have 40x60 cm prints hanging on the wall from the M8 and DMR and they are as detailed and crisp as the day they were taken.

Film users are smarter - they tend to prefer Tr-X over document film. :lol:

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25 minutes ago, jaapv said:

You won't be happy for long. In a few years time there will be 120MP full-frame cameras around -  and you will be stuck with taking crappy shots with a mere 40 MP low resolution camera...😱
Take it from me - pursuing the latest and bestest in the quest for the holy technical grail has never produced a single decent photograph. The sufferers of this syndrome are stuck in the taking of "test shots".

I agree with Luigi: An M8 it still perfectly capable of taking more than excellent shots - I have 40x60 cm prints hanging on the wall from the M8 and DMR and they are as detailed and crisp as the day they were taken.

Film users are smarter - they tend to prefer Tr-X over document film. :lol:

I think we need to call this post to the attention of the moderators.

This is both seditious and undermining of Leica's principal marketing strategy.

Moderator…!

Edited by marcg
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2 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Dynamic range,  bit depth and ISO range before pixel count !

I agree completely once we are at ≥24 MP.  And dynamic range and ISO performance are better in some/most current-generation sensors than in the M10(P):

http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#FujiFilm GFX 100(FF),Leica M10-P,Phase One IQ4 150MP,Sony ILCE-7M3

In practice, I occasionally notice the difference when shooting an M10(P) vs. a7riii/iv, which has about 1 stop more DR.  I routinely notice the difference when shooting an M10(P) vs IQ4, which has 2 stops more DR, especially when shooting landscapes with bright skies, sun, or water, or even high-contrast indoors scenes with the subject in shadow.

 

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My experiences with the Sony A7RIII has taught me that the extra resolution comes with a hidden price tag, it shows up the flaws in your technique, so when I turned of the IBIS and all the gadgetry and manual focused any advantage the extra resolution gave me was lost, OK for someone younger than my 61yrs with better eyesight and who doesn't have to contend with physical disability as well maybe they can take advantage of the extra resolution, but I can't  and this is why I was so heartbroken when the new M10M came out with the larger sensor, its just not for me.

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I am going to sell my M240 and M9 after I acquire the M10-R, otherwise they would just sit unused on a shelf, like my M9 has done for the last 4 years. I spotted someone saying he had just bought an M9 A la Carte on the Leica thread on Reddit, so posted that I was happy to part with my similar ALC M9, albeit with dark green Jaguar leather rather than the blue leather. The pathetic, immature and plain nasty comments I received back were incredible. I have cancelled my Reddit membership. What a ghastly forum that is. It is a bit like RFF became a few years ago and brings out as a contrast, what a generally well behaved forum this is. 

Wilson

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While I don't have an M10 my M240 had been good enough for my use these past 7 years.  The images continue to be beautiful from 24mp Leicas, the lenses punch well above the sensor and I'm curious how well a 40+ mp sensor will challenge them.   I'll buy the M10-R the moment it's available, this is an upgrade I've been waiting, specifically for backpacking.  To keep weight down I normally carry one body, a 50mm lens and a small tripod.  Stitching gets me wide shots with great resolution yet 24mp is challenged with cropping to get an equivalent tele shot, the extra resolution will be most welcome.  The challenges will be technical, the rangefinder accuracy, my eyes and ability to handhold.  Currently, I take three identical images to insure one that is sharp and free of movement.  I'm heading to the Leica store today hoping they'll have the monochrome to see what my lenses and I can do with 40mp.  

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I'd really like to have more MP in order to be able to crop as I can do with the Q2. Its not that the 24MP are not enough. You just had then more freedom. I would go out more often with just the 28mm or the 35mm. But this is not so essential that I would not wait for the M11.

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