Photo editing software to use with Apple Photos as library?

[Old Chou]

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New to Leica and serious digital photography in general.  And this is my first post here.  I recently bought my first Leica -- Leica Q -- and couldn't be more excited to start doing photography again.  Although I realize my (physical) darkroom skill is no longer needed and I need to learn digital processing now!

I've been trying to decide which editing software I should start with.  I have listed Lightroom, Photoshop Element, Capture One, On1 as raw processing / editing candidates.  But I am more familiar with Apple's Photos software, and have used it for library and sharing.  So my question is: which editing software is best to use with Apple Photos as photo library?  Or put another way: how important is the library / storage aspect of the software (such as those that come with Lightroom CC) should I consider?  I hope my question makes sense.  Thank you.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Old Chou

[jaapv]

A library is very important as you accumulate photographs. Some post processing software comes with its own, some has only primitive functions. As you wish to retain your Photos library, I would suggest that you use it only as a DAM and do your editing in more sophisticated programs. For a beginner I would suggest ON1 as it has both extensive presets and good eating tools and is easy to to master. Photoshop Elements would be a good choice as well. Lightroom and Photoshop (difficult) come with library facilities and are expensive subscription programs in the long run. Capture One is excellent but has a learning curve and is not really aimed at beginners, Affinity is still a bit of a beta. I would ignore the more exotic programs. Photos is too basic, more aimed at the social media market. 

[ianman]

I would suggest you take a look at Raw Power by Gentlemen Coders https://gentlemencoders.com/  The developer was Senior Developer of Engineering for Aperture and iPhoto.

The application can be used standalone or as a Photos plugin.

[jaapv]

11 minutes ago, ianman said:

I would suggest you take a look at Raw Power by Gentlemen Coders https://gentlemencoders.com/  The developer was Senior Developer of Engineering for Aperture and iPhoto.

The application can be used standalone or as a Photos plugin.

I wouldn't. They don't support the Q2, SL2 , M10M or CL.

[Exodies]

That’s ok, the op has a Q.

[jaapv]

And he wouldn't behave like the rest of us and start adding gear?

[wellfleet]

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9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I wouldn't. They don't support the Q2, SL2 , M10M or CL.

To be clear, it's Apple that doesn't support what you've listed, which would mean that Apple's own Photos has yet to receive support also.When Apple decides to support those cameras, they'll be supported by Gentlemen Coders.

[Old Chou]

Thanks to jaapv for a good overview of the landsape. 
Thanks to ianman for the recommendation -- that actually sounds close to what I need.  I'll check into Raw Power.

As to whether I would start adding gear or not -- I expect the Q to be my camera for the next 10 years.  But we all know things change . . . . 

[wellfleet]

15 minutes ago, Old Chou said:

.  I'll check into Raw Power.
 

Be advised, if you're using Apple Photos with Raw Power, you should read this article by Nik Bhatt, the developer of Raw Power.

https://tidbits.com/2019/06/14/the-ins-and-outs-of-non-destructive-editing-in-photos-for-mac-and-ios/

Edit: FYI, Nik is working on a DAM for GCoders and should be released with version V3, though that date is unknown.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by wellfleet

[Old Chou]

Well noted wellfleet.  Thanks.

[ianman]

1 hour ago, wellfleet said:

Edit: FYI, Nik is working on a DAM for GCoders and should be released with version V3, though that date is unknown.

That is excellent news. There has not been a decent DAM for MacOS since iView Mutlimedia, when it was sold to any ruined by Microsoft and then Phase One.

That being said (sorry Exodies 😉), the Finder is powerful enough to use for most DAM purposes.

Edited January 27, 2020 by ianman

[wellfleet]

8 minutes ago, ianman said:

That is excellent news. There has not been a decent DAM for MacOS since iView Mutlimedia, when it was sold to any ruined by Microsoft and then Phase One.

That being said (sorry Exodies 😉), the Finder is powerful enough to use for most DAM purposes.

Nik Bhatt has said that the DAM will be a front end to Apple Photos, so it has limitations. You can read about that and possible other new features here - https://gentlemencoders.com/forums/forum/raw-power-for-macos-general-discussion/

[prk60091]

1 hour ago, wellfleet said:

Be advised, if you're using Apple Photos with Raw Power, you should read this article by Nik Bhatt, the developer of Raw Power.

https://tidbits.com/2019/06/14/the-ins-and-outs-of-non-destructive-editing-in-photos-for-mac-and-ios/

Edit: FYI, Nik is working on a DAM for GCoders and should be released with version V3, though that date is unknown.

 

i think that the linked post may be outdated.  iOS 13 and iPadOS 13 seem to treat the Q dng's differently.... (not in a bad way-- but different)

to add to the workflow after final edits for printing  i export a tiff so i can get the image printed...

[wellfleet]

25 minutes ago, prk60091 said:

i think that the linked post may be outdated.  iOS 13 and iPadOS 13 seem to treat the Q dng's differently.... (not in a bad way-- but different)

to add to the workflow after final edits for printing  i export a tiff so i can get the image printed...

So you're saying that this no longer happens? He wrote this with respect to both Catalina and iOS 13.

"Photos can only store the adjustment information for one editor. If you use editor T, and then use editor V, then V will be using a JPEG generated by T. At that point, you cannot change the adjustments you made with T. You can edit again with T, but then you are stacking your adjustments on top of V’s JPEG." Nik Bhatt, July 24, 2019.

 

[prk60091]

what you have quoted has not changed

if memory serves me -- you can try raw power for free and if you like it you can buy (not a subscription) i think you lose the ability to change the pre-sets or make your own in the trial version.

 

 

[ianman]

1 hour ago, wellfleet said:

Nik Bhatt has said that the DAM will be a front end to Apple Photos, so it has limitations. You can read about that and possible other new features here - https://gentlemencoders.com/forums/forum/raw-power-for-macos-general-discussion/

That's a pity. On the plus side I did read "Finder Tag support is coming in RAW Power 3.0".

[rob_w]

On 1/27/2020 at 3:17 PM, wellfleet said:

if you're using Apple Photos with Raw Power, you should read this article by Nik Bhatt, the developer of Raw Power.

https://tidbits.com/2019/06/14/the-ins-and-outs-of-non-destructive-editing-in-photos-for-mac-and-ios/

I would second this recommendation.  Using any external editor with Photos, you need  to be careful as Photos itself will switch to sending/receiving JPEGs and you will wonder what happened.

It's not a big obstacle though.  Once you understand what is happening, as Nik explains very clearly, there is no further problem.  I used Raw Power for a while but did not like Photos as a library as much as you do, so switched to ON1.

[iRandom]

In what way does Apple not support the Q2? I've been using Photos for my Q2 RAWs since I got it and haven't noticed any issues. I think I've also used Photos with CL RAWs, but I don't recall for sure since the only CL RAWs I have are from when I was thinking about getting one.

I don't have RawPower handy to try it, but I'm sure it supports the Q2 since RP uses the Apple RAW package.

You do need to be mindful of how Photos handles extensions if you want to use the extension for the actual RAW conversion. Just be sure not to do any prior adjustments in Photos if you want the original RAW to be passed to the extension.

[wellfleet]

37 minutes ago, iRandom said:

In what way does Apple not support the Q2? I've been using Photos for my Q2 RAWs since I got it and haven't noticed any issues. I think I've also used Photos with CL RAWs, but I don't recall for sure since the only CL RAWs I have are from when I was thinking about getting one.

I don't have RawPower handy to try it, but I'm sure it supports the Q2 since RP uses the Apple RAW package.

You do need to be mindful of how Photos handles extensions if you want to use the extension for the actual RAW conversion. Just be sure not to do any prior adjustments in Photos if you want the original RAW to be passed to the extension.

It may work, but it hasn't officially been supported and thus not optimized for the Q2. 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210191

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[Old Chou]

I thought I'd update my final decision.  I have given Lightroom CC a try as the monthly price is lower to start with.  So far I'm having a blast.  The 1 TB cloud storage is appealing as I don't have a storage solution for photography in place. 

But now I'm also worried about spending more time in front of the computer.  My day job already requires all day typing so more computer time is not ideal.  (a modern reason for compelling good in-camera JPG engine)  Anyways hopefully my processing pace picks up and wife forgives me after seeing prettier photos.