Dehazing a lens ... myself

[dem331]

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I have a 90mm collapsible Elmar which has bad haze and takes terrible pictures.  I bought it years ago cheaply as a “softer focus” lens, but quickly gave up on it. Only now have I realised that it is hazed. 

Since I am not going to get it professionally cleaned (I think it is probably past repair and not worth trying to recover it), I was thinking of having a go at dismantling it and cleaning it myself for a bit of fun.

I realise that the investment in the tools and chemicals I will need will probably cost more than a professional repair, and that I will almost certainly botch it, but it will be fun and I might learn something. 

I have no clue where to start. Can anyone point me to a resource (book, online page) where I can start exploring? 

Many thanks 
 

 

[Michael Geschlecht]

3 hours ago, dem331 said:

I have a 90mm collapsible Elmar which has bad haze and takes terrible pictures.  I bought it years ago cheaply as a “softer focus” lens, but quickly gave up on it. Only now have I realised that it is hazed. 

Since I am not going to get it professionally cleaned (I think it is probably past repair and not worth trying to recover it), I was thinking of having a go at dismantling it and cleaning it myself for a bit of fun.

I realise that the investment in the tools and chemicals I will need will probably cost more than a professional repair, and that I will almost certainly botch it, but it will be fun and I might learn something. 

I have no clue where to start. Can anyone point me to a resource (book, online page) where I can start exploring? 

Many thanks 
 

 

Hello Enrique,

The 90mm, F4, Elmar, Collapsible lens is 1 of the best built Leitz lenses. It has a complex mechanism to extend the lens elements & then to collapse the lens back. It is a mechanism that works well. Even this many years after it was made. 

It is a shame that you would not consider using a mechanically simpler lens to begin to learn how to work on lenses.

If you were to learn with a somewhat simpler lens & then go on, possibly with some help, to clean your 90mm Collapsible: After you have gained some knowledge about this: You might end up with 2 perfectly usable & properly cleaned lenses.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited January 24, 2020 by Michael Geschlecht

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[nwphil]

8 hours ago, dem331 said:

I have a 90mm collapsible Elmar which has bad haze and takes terrible pictures.  I bought it years ago cheaply as a “softer focus” lens, but quickly gave up on it. Only now have I realised that it is hazed. 

Since I am not going to get it professionally cleaned (I think it is probably past repair and not worth trying to recover it), I was thinking of having a go at dismantling it and cleaning it myself for a bit of fun.

I realise that the investment in the tools and chemicals I will need will probably cost more than a professional repair, and that I will almost certainly botch it, but it will be fun and I might learn something. 

I have no clue where to start. Can anyone point me to a resource (book, online page) where I can start exploring? 

Many thanks 
 

 

not sure where in the world you are, but often estimates are free....two-way shipping for such a small not-valued lens should not be that expensive either. At least in the end, you will not be saying: "if only I had sent it out for  ..."

[dem331]

Thanks for the advice. 

Michael, I am sure you are right. I’m just bored using it as a paperweight. 

I live in Madrid, I know one reputable Leica specialist technician here. I have been to his home a couple of times. He repaired my 50mm summicron v4 and calibrated my Canada Noctilux. But he has a queue of cameras and lenses for repair that extends several times around his apartment.   Seems to be a good profession to get into for someone young and interested but he can not find an apprentice.  The new Leica Store in Madrid (beautiful shop) is also looking for a technician.  They asked me if I could recommend one!!!
 

 If anyone has a suggestion where I could mail it to in EU to have it looked at I would welcome it.  
 

Many thanks. 

 

 

 

[pgk]

11 hours ago, dem331 said:

I was thinking of having a go at dismantling it and cleaning it myself for a bit of fun.

That's the easy bit. Putting it back together can be tricky, and putting it back together so that it actually works as it should, is a lot trickier. I know what you mean about the collapsible. At one time they sold for peanuts although like everything Leica they have gone up in price. But I still doubt that they are economic to repair as the repair cost will most likely exceed their value afterwards. I have several lenses which fall into this category. I've bitten the bullet and had one serviced because I liked it and as I suspected, it cost more than its worth - but on the other hand I couldn't find one which worked as it should so perhaps its undervalued. I've others which sit in sealed boxes with desiccant waiting for a decision on their fate.

[earleygallery]

1 hour ago, dem331 said:

Thanks for the advice. 

Michael, I am sure you are right. I’m just bored using it as a paperweight. 

I live in Madrid, I know one reputable Leica specialist technician here. I have been to his home a couple of times. He repaired my 50mm summicron v4 and calibrated my Canada Noctilux. But he has a queue of cameras and lenses for repair that extends several times around his apartment.   Seems to be a good profession to get into for someone young and interested but he can not find an apprentice.  The new Leica Store in Madrid (beautiful shop) is also looking for a technician.  They asked me if I could recommend one!!!
 

 If anyone has a suggestion where I could mail it to in EU to have it looked at I would welcome it.  
 

Many thanks. 

 

 

 

Aperture in London have an in house repairer, maybe give them a call or email. 

How young does that apprentice need to be? I might consider a career change.....

[pedaes]

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Be aware that it might be impossible to remove the haze completely, so don't expect 'as new'.

[dem331]

31 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Be aware that it might be impossible to remove the haze completely, so don't expect 'as new'.

Thanks, I am aware of this, it's one of the reasons I am reluctant to send it to a specialist.

[earleygallery]

At the same time a CLA can only make it better - they will probably give you a rough idea of cost if you contact them. 

[Gelatino]

8 hours ago, dem331 said:

Thanks for the advice. 

Michael, I am sure you are right. I’m just bored using it as a paperweight. 

 

 

 

 

Dismantled, and set into pieces, may be it won't work as a paperweight as well as before 😅

[nwphil]

2 hours ago, Gelatino said:

Dismantled, and set into pieces, may be it won't work as a paperweight as well as before 😅

might become an interesting one if embedded in clear epoxy molding....

[farnz]

21 hours ago, dem331 said:

I have a 90mm collapsible Elmar which has bad haze and takes terrible pictures.

If it's Purple Haze it dates from the 1960's and might have been used at rock concerts where the Jimi Hendrix Experience was playing.

Pete.

[james.liam]

You silly kids!

I remember speaking with Sherry Krauter once, who mentioned a special solution used by Leica to remove haze and only available through them.

I had once bought a cosmetically clean 35 8-element and contrast appeared low @ ƒ/2. Sent it to Don Goldberg and despite his best efforts, too much remained behind rendering my sample seriously impaired. It is worth a shot but you'll not likely get it as clean as you might otherwise in the hands of a pro.

Edited January 29, 2020 by james.liam

[pgk]

'Haze' is a word used to describe the results of a number of potential causes. It might be deposition of some material - grease, or very fine sticky particulates perhaps. It could be caused by chemical attack resulting from a vaporised chemical. It might be due to condensation and subsequent chemical changes to the coating/glass surface. It might be oxidation of the coating/glass itself. Internally it might be the glass adhesive chemically changing (in very old lenses the Canada Balsam does tend to yellow and move, with all sorts of effects). So there is no 'catch-all' solution. Surface depositors may simply wipe off (or you could try several sophisticated methods of removal including polymers spread on as liquid which then lift off with everything else). BUT if you strip a lens down and then can't clean it your options are to send it to a repairer who will most likely curse you for having dismantled it - and charge you for excess time figuring how to reassemble it. Or you could try reassembling it yourself and accepting that it won't clean. Or you leave it well alone and use it as a paperweight or sell it with a full description of the problem.

[thighslapper]

Well, you could approach this completely logically.....

a. If it is likely to cost more to repair than it is worth you might as well buy a replacement that isn't hazed.

b. If you attempt a self repair and fail, you have spent nothing and will just have to buy a replacement as in (a)

c. If you self repair and succeed, you have saved the cash, learnt something and have a sense of achievement. 

d. As Michael suggests, you can always buy an old knackered copy on eBay and use it to practice on first. 

I've had several Leica M lenses to bits .... and as long as you are methodical and document what you have done photographically,  keep the bits well ordered and never use brute force when you encounter a 'problem' you can always reverse the process at any point where you get out of your depth. There are lens dismantling instructions on the internet if you hunt, and for most old manual lenses the process is fairly generic. 

The worst you can end up with is a badly reassembled paperweight instead of the one you have got at the moment. 

[Rick in CO]

On 1/23/2020 at 3:00 PM, dem331 said:

I have a 90mm collapsible Elmar which has bad haze and takes terrible pictures.  I bought it years ago cheaply as a “softer focus” lens, but quickly gave up on it. Only now have I realised that it is hazed. 

Since I am not going to get it professionally cleaned (I think it is probably past repair and not worth trying to recover it), I was thinking of having a go at dismantling it and cleaning it myself for a bit of fun.

I realise that the investment in the tools and chemicals I will need will probably cost more than a professional repair, and that I will almost certainly botch it, but it will be fun and I might learn something. 

I have no clue where to start. Can anyone point me to a resource (book, online page) where I can start exploring? 

Many thanks 
 

 

Thomas Tomosy's Leica Repair Book has a disassembly and cleaning of the 3 element 90mm f4 collapsible lens which is a basic guide.  

I successfully cleaned my hazy 4 element collapsible lens elements and re-assembled with no problems.  

Be careful to gently clean the elements, the coating is reportedly very soft and susceptible to abrasion.

Resulted in a nice usable lens!

Good Luck!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I cleaned some old Leitz and else lenses. No heavy investment in tools.

Using lens cleaning liquid and Leitz fungus cleaning recipe. It is available on-line. 90 f4 service part might be in well known Leica manual for m2/3 cameras and lenses, meter.

I google lens in question. Threads and videos comes often.

[Reini]

You need a few tools to disassemble. Mini screwdriver, right size rubber, spanner wrench,...
Patience and a lot of courage ... you can also break a lot. The only question is whether it pays off for 1 lens?

[dem331]

I thought I would give an update on this. In the end I didn’t get around to attempting to clean the lens myself.  It sat around for three years unused looking quite cool on a shelf, mounted on an also unused M4. 
 

At the end of December 2023 I took it in to Fotocasion in Madrid (official Leica dealer but not a Leica Store) since I had some other business there, and asked how much it would cost to clean, expecting it to be not worth the while. The shop attendant looked at it with a torch/loupe and said he thought it was not haze but mainly solidified grease from the aperture blades and that they could get most of it clean.  He said that if there was haze between the inner group elements they could not do anything, that had to be sent to Leica. 
 

He gave an estimate of €140 so I went ahead. Within a week I had it back. I can still see some haze or clouding looking through the lens with a torch, but 90% of it is gone. Today I took it out for a spin and results look very good.   
 

Now I have to see what I use it for.  My original purpose was to take more forgiving portraits of not-so-young people- yes , I know wrinkles are nothing to be ashamed of, but the ladies in my family don’t share my point of view. 

 

 

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Hallo,

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[KFo]

That is why I often use a fuzzy lens for party pictures.  If the ladies like it you have won!

 

I notice that here Casanova Foto has 4 collapsable Elmars in their used display.  They have been there for at least two years.🥂

Edited January 6 by KFo