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erniethemilk

Pre Washing Kodak Tri-X

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Does anyone recommend pre washing Tri-X before the developer goes in?

Recently started home developing my own black and white film and whilst not having any major issues - as a beginner, I’m wondering if there’s any benefit to a pre wash. 

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Some claim that doing so will bring the temperature of the film to that of the developer and some say that it helps to eliminate any bubbles that may form when developer is poured in.  Years ago when I did B&W Tri-X, I would never pre-wash but I did always allow my film and tank time to warm and would rap the tank slightly on the counter after filling and after each agitation to dislodge any bubbles.

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I use a Jobo rotating processor and used to get horrible horizontal developing streaks on all my B/W film, no matter what the drum's rotation speed.  

The problem was solved by a pre-wash,.  Even 10 seconds long, as long as the film is wet the first contact with the developer in the rotating drum is even and avoids streaks.

There was endless discussion on this topic on Jobo-dedicated websites - anyway, to each his own, whatever works!

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I'm glad you started this thread because it raised my curiosity and reminded me of all the Tri-x and Plus-x 120 film that is hiding in my refrigerator.  I've found that a lot of people that use Jobo tanks do the pre wash and some of the chemical manufacturers also suggest it. My earlier comment was based on the use of D76 in a stainless tank and that was almost 30yrs ago.  Things have certainly changed since then....I've even found one developer that does a one step process, no stop bath or fixer needed!  I may have to start searching for my tank and reels so I can clean out the fridge. 😉

 

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1 hour ago, Siriusone59 said:

I'm glad you started this thread because it raised my curiosity and reminded me of all the Tri-x and Plus-x 120 film that is hiding in my refrigerator.  I've found that a lot of people that use Jobo tanks do the pre wash and some of the chemical manufacturers also suggest it. My earlier comment was based on the use of D76 in a stainless tank and that was almost 30yrs ago.  Things have certainly changed since then....I've even found one developer that does a one step process, no stop bath or fixer needed!  I may have to start searching for my tank and reels so I can clean out the fridge. 😉

 

Was the one bath developer/fixer Diafine? I think I tried it once back in the 70’s.

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23 hours ago, Siriusone59 said:

Some claim that doing so will bring the temperature of the film to that of the developer and some say that it helps to eliminate any bubbles that may form when developer is poured in.  Years ago when I did B&W Tri-X, I would never pre-wash but I did always allow my film and tank time to warm and would rap the tank slightly on the counter after filling and after each agitation to dislodge any bubbles.

Agree, as mentioned in a different topic posting the only time I use a pre soak is with large format sheet film to remove the anti halation purple backing on Adox film and to ensure even development in the print drum on a drum roller base.

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30 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

Was the one bath developer/fixer Diafine? I think I tried it once back in the 70’s.

It's a product called Cinestill DF96.  I haven't tried it but it sounds interesting. 

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On 1/20/2020 at 7:59 AM, erniethemilk said:

Does anyone recommend pre washing Tri-X before the developer goes in?

Recently started home developing my own black and white film and whilst not having any major issues - as a beginner, I’m wondering if there’s any benefit to a pre wash. 

It is certainly not a must. Many people claimed never did it and are still happy about their results. 

It won't make your picture more beautiful, but can better avoid making your picture unnecessary ugly.

I found it helped a lot to get more consistent results after I added this step in my flow. I was surprised why I didn't do it before.

 

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On 2/9/2020 at 3:12 PM, TomB_tx said:

On the other hand I've processed B&W for over 55 years, never used a pre-wash, haven't noticed any issues.

I think the negative side of prewash is the waste of time and water. The benefit is more consistent results for less experienced or less Decline player. 

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I think the use of pre-wetting is very much a matter for experimentation. I have found the default programming made by the Jobo engineers to work brilliantly with HC/HC-110 and Kodak Tri-X, Fujifilm Acros, and Kodak T-Max. However, other film development chemicals etc might produce different results and I would advocate careful testing to determine what is the best for each combination.

From Jobo Quarterly #3:

"JOBO’s recommendation of a 5 minute prewet of B&W film is probably one of the most disputed suggestions we have made. It causes many people to choose up sides. Certainly many people have chosen to use the prewet, and are more than happy with the continued excellent results they obtain. They have made the other necessary adjustments, and their process is clean and consistent. The original suggestion came from Germany, with the statement that the H&D Curves were closer to the manufacturer's curves when we used a prewet with rotary." Paul Rowe, Technical Manager, JOBO USA.

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And from the JOBO manual:

"A five minute pre-rinse of any black and white film works with the developer to produce a negative with manageable contrast and good tonal range, using the manufacturer's recommended 'hand process' (intermittent agitation) times. To pre-rinse, put a quantity of process temperature water in the tank, equal to, or slightly greater than, the amount of developer. Allow this loaded tank to rotate on the processor for five minutes. At the end of that period, pour out the pre-rinse water, and pour in the developer. Pre- Rinse times shorter than five minutes may produce irregular development, and should be avoided."

This is for the more manual CPP/CPE JOBO processors, for the ATL series one doesn't have to do the manual steps, obviously. (Pre-rinse is obviously something you can choose easily and quickly by re-programming your ATL if you so desire).

Edited by 105012

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On 2/10/2020 at 12:12 PM, TomB_tx said:

On the other hand I've processed B&W for over 55 years, never used a pre-wash, haven't noticed any issues.

Same with me.

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