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SL2 - how effective is IBIS + OIS


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5 hours ago, ZHNL said:

All Panasonic S lens have "certified by Leica" Label. 

I did some test on Panasonic 70-200f4.

I have found the best results was turn of OIS but keep IBIS with E shutter. I can get repeatable sharp images with 1/15 at 200mm. 

Turn on both doesn't really work well. It even slightly worse than Turn on OIS but turn off IBIS. 

Using E shutter is must no matter what to get repeatable sharp images. 

If you have lens OIS turn on and then turn on the body, you can't turn off IBIS actually.(It will be grey out) but once turn off OIS, you have option now either turn on or off IBIS and also turn on or off OIS separately. 

Anyway, there is still lots of software, comparability issues within L mount.  

I have to quote myself here since I can't edit my post anymore. It turns out there is no option I can turn on OIS but leave IBIS off, I thought I did but after check my setting again: Whenever OIS on, IBIS actually will automatically from "off" to Grey out "on", so I basically test both case with the same setting.  I said It even slightly worse than Turn on OIS but turn off IBIS.   That is not true even though it seems still understandable given they are all handhold and quite tricky to make conclusive results. 

However, I stand behind my comment about turn off OIS and keep IBIS on give better results.  

I welcome any test confirmation. I don't think it is a definite answer for truth and may change with future firmware update but FYI only. For  now, my default setting with this lens is OIS off, IBIS on, E shutter.  

Edited by ZHNL
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17 minutes ago, ZHNL said:

I have to quote myself here since I can't edit my post anymore. It turns out there is no option I can turn on OIS but leave IBIS off, I thought I did but after check my setting again: Whenever OIS on, IBIS actually will automatically from "off" to Grey out "on", so I basically test both case with the same setting.  I said It even slightly worse than Turn on OIS but turn off IBIS.   That is not true even though it seems still understandable given they are all handhold and quite tricky to make conclusive results. 

However, I stand behind my comment about turn off OIS and keep IBIS on give better results.  

I welcome any test confirmation. I don't think it is a definite answer for truth and may change with future firmware update but FYI only. For  now, my default setting with this lens is OIS off, IBIS on, E shutter.  

Are you saying that with the Panasonic lens, you can turn OIS off on the lens and then, independently from lens setting, turn SL2's IBIS on and off?

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41 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Are you saying that with the Panasonic lens, you can turn OIS off on the lens and then, independently from lens setting, turn SL2's IBIS on and off?

Yes, that's how it works. So the possible settings with a Panasonic lens are:

Turn OIS off on the lens = User can choose to activate IBIS or not in the menu

Turn OIS on on the lens = IBIS menu greyed out, totally intransparent what's happening. I read that Leica is prioritising OIS when available. So the greyed out IBIS menu means IBIS is not active. However, I also don't have a definitive answer :)

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Based on S1R and SL2, my experience has been that IBIS works much better than OIS, with several stops advantage. And this is still my understanding, in general terms.

Some time ago I got the Canon 400mm f4 DO v2, mounted with the electronic Sigma MC-21 adapter. With this combo, IBIS is deactivated, so you can only shoot with or without OIS. The OIS of this combo is absolutely stunning. Approaching unbelievable, based on my experience with e.g. Nikon D5 and D850 with modern E-lenses.

I mention this just to add support that OIS can be excellent - and comparable to IBIS. This does not imply that Leica's OIS-implementation in SL24-90 or SL90-280 is on par with IBIS, absolutely not, but one has to test the various combos in order to arrive to one's personal preference. 

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1 hour ago, helged said:

Based on S1R and SL2, my experience has been that IBIS works much better than OIS, with several stops advantage. And this is still my understanding, in general terms.

Some time ago I got the Canon 400mm f4 DO v2, mounted with the electronic Sigma MC-21 adapter. With this combo, IBIS is deactivated, so you can only shoot with or without OIS. The OIS of this combo is absolutely stunning. Approaching unbelievable, based on my experience with e.g. Nikon D5 and D850 with modern E-lenses.

I mention this just to add support that OIS can be excellent - and comparable to IBIS. This does not imply that Leica's OIS-implementation in SL24-90 or SL90-280 is on par with IBIS, absolutely not, but one has to test the various combos in order to arrive to one's personal preference. 

OIS is thought to be best for long lenses, and for a long prime could probably do even better than for a zoom.  That reminds me that I was impressed with the quality of OIS on the Fuji X-T2 with its 100-400 zoom.  I haven't made a quantitative comparison and if I get time I will try it again.  There's information that should be shared by anyone who wants to test this stuff.  Were you standing with arms out, with arms braced, or sitting?  How distant is your target?  I usually try to find a situation where there is enough light to work at moderate ISO (fixed) and a shutter speed wide open of 1/F or 1/2F.  Then I can stop down, shoot at proper exposure and see what is the slowest shutter speed that gives reliably sharp or "more than half the time" sharp results.

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4 hours ago, helged said:

Based on S1R and SL2, my experience has been that IBIS works much better than OIS, with several stops advantage. And this is still my understanding, in general terms.

Some time ago I got the Canon 400mm f4 DO v2, mounted with the electronic Sigma MC-21 adapter. With this combo, IBIS is deactivated, so you can only shoot with or without OIS. The OIS of this combo is absolutely stunning. Approaching unbelievable, based on my experience with e.g. Nikon D5 and D850 with modern E-lenses.

I mention this just to add support that OIS can be excellent - and comparable to IBIS. This does not imply that Leica's OIS-implementation in SL24-90 or SL90-280 is on par with IBIS, absolutely not, but one has to test the various combos in order to arrive to one's personal preference. 

To Helge's point about this combination. Here's an image with the Canon 400mm f4 mounted on the SL2 via the MC-21.

ISO50  1/25s  f4  - hand held, standing with no support, overcast day. There's no motion blur.

The IS on the lens is working perfectly even without IBIS being available. 

100% crop of unprocessed image & full image:

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Here's the alternative scenario: IBIS & no OIS:

SL2 with Carl Zeiss 300mm f2.8 APO-Tessar via Novoflex CY-L dumb adapter. 

After setting the lens profile as an R 280mm f2.8 APO-Telyt  IBIS is then available  in camera.

ISO50  1/30s  f2.8  - hand held, standing with no support, subject's in the shade. This lens is a monster, it weighs about 3kg.

100% crop of unprocessed image.

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Full frame of above image. SL2 with Carl Zeiss 300mm f2.8 APO-Tessar via Novoflex CY-L dumb adapter. 

Lens profile set as R 280mm f2.8 APO-Telyt & IBIS on.

ISO50  1/30s  f2.8  - hand held, standing with no support, subject's in the shade. 

I'm going to run a few more shots to try and determine for myself whether IBIS or OIS gives the better results.

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Edited by michali
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With the Nikkor 400mm f2.8E, which is also a monster, I have pin-sharp images at 1/40 sec (IBIS activated, no OIS, on S1R, handheld). Not as a rule, but more often than not. Handheld with OIS activated, with the lens on Nikon D5/D850, I would hardly go below 1/200 sec to 1/100 sec. So the S1R/SL2 IBIS is really good. (As is the OIS of the Canon 400mm f4 DO v2...). 

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Sitting, with arms not braced on anything, with the Fuji X-T2 and its 100-400 set at 400 mm, I was able to consistently go down to 1/20 to 1/13 second . The target is 50 m away and above me.  So that's about 20/F, or 4.3 stops with just OIS.  But it is a dramatic OIS.  You press the shutter halfway, the image swims round for a fraction of a second, and then settles down quite solidly anchored.

Edited by scott kirkpatrick
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