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Having a monochrome version, or anticipating an monochrome version in your range seems all the rage these days. Having seen some of the images from the M10M they do look amazing.

Would Leica ever consider a CL “M”?

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18 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Would Leica ever consider a CL “M”?

I suspect, in the immediate term, that would distract too much from M10M sales.

However if Ricoh released a GR-III with a monochrome sensor, that would really set the world talking,  and possibly even take APS-C monochrome mainstream.

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58 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

Would Leica ever consider a CL “M”?

As someone with a M246 and two CL's (one converted for IR use), I do find the thought of a monochrome CL very appealing.  I love the 246, but it feels a bit large and heavy at times.  Love the just grab the CL on the way out the door reality, but I do wonder how many people would truly want/purchase a  monochrome CL.  Hence, I am not expecting it.  

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Hi Le Chef, i don’t think it is in their project. Actually in the lat months Leica seems to be launched for profits only project multiplicating the commercial version of canera without any enhancement software or sensor side. They still have some very big bug in the firmware of CL and M10 (some very embarrassing) but instead of fix them with the new year we have seen m10 polar white (winter version...) CL paul smith (very colorful) and m10M . Here is the point by me, ( i love b/w and still shoot analog b/w ) i prefer to have the most information on the raw file, yes a direct monochrome sensor create may be easier to work images but it an “hardware” artifact that reduce my creativity. To be short, i hope leica stop to make “gadget” and go back to their ancestral love, photography.

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I wonder how often I have read this on the forum..

1. Not doing special editions would slow down R&D as the company profit would decrease.

2. The people who develop the specials are not the same people that work on the ongoing development of other models, so your bug-fixing is not affected, on the contrary. In fact, the design is often farmed out to a design company, like Audi Design.

3. " Ancestral love" ? The first special edition was the Leica Luxus 1 from 1930, the same year that the Leica 1 was introduced and that the LTM mount became the standard. Since then there have been hundreds of specials, the M6 series was notorious for them.
If Leica has an "ancestral love" it is the production of special editions.

So if you want to have your complaints fixed, you should welcome Leica's efforts to generate income to reinvest

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8 minutes ago, jaapv said:

I wonder how often I have read this on the forum..

1. Not doing special editions would slow down R&D as the company profit would decrease.

2. The people who develop the specials are not the same people that work on the ongoing development of other models, so your bug-fixing is not affected, on the contrary.

3. " Ancestral love" ? The first special edition was the Leica Luxus 1 from 1930, the same year that the Leica 1 was introduced and that the LTM mount became the standard. Since then there have been hundreds of specials, the M6 series was notorious for them.
If Leica has an "ancestral love" it is the production of special editions.

So if you want to have your complaints fixed, you should welcome Leica's efforts to generate income to reinvest

can make this a sticky :)

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13 hours ago, Le Chef said:

Would Leica ever consider a CL “M”?

Sales... 

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I'm with ramarren all the way on this one.  

 

Ciao,  Sully

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me too (Ohhhhh) I would be interested in a CL M. Just because I like the B&W pictures and this would ease the process...😉

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10 hours ago, jaapv said:

I wonder how often I have read this on the forum..

1. Not doing special editions would slow down R&D as the company profit would decrease.

2. The people who develop the specials are not the same people that work on the ongoing development of other models, so your bug-fixing is not affected, on the contrary. In fact, the design is often farmed out to a design company, like Audi Design.

3. " Ancestral love" ? The first special edition was the Leica Luxus 1 from 1930, the same year that the Leica 1 was introduced and that the LTM mount became the standard. Since then there have been hundreds of specials, the M6 series was notorious for them.
If Leica has an "ancestral love" it is the production of special editions.

So if you want to have your complaints fixed, you should welcome Leica's efforts to generate income to reinvest

Sorry jaapv i am not with you, What you wrote is right in a company like google or like canon or fuji, but not in a small brand as leica.

1) i am not complaining my bugs, neither the costs, i just report what i see from my point of view and not based on what they declared on the last financial statement 

2) compare to car for example, not all producer make sport cars but all cars must have 4 wheels and an engine. Now all cars are euro6 standard, if you buy one car new now and it’s euro3, even if a wonderful engine i can not use it so is unuseful, we have seen this in leica many times from dng compatibility to lens firmware and many more. So if they reinvest in R&D as you say they reinvest in the wrong way. And this is told by a owner of many leica cameras. Everything i say i say because i love this brand and hope they do always better.

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3 hours ago, M.piras said:

Sorry jaapv i am not with you, What you wrote is right in a company like google or like canon or fuji, but not in a small brand as leica.

1) i am not complaining my bugs, neither the costs, i just report what i see from my point of view and not based on what they declared on the last financial statement 

2) compare to car for example, not all producer make sport cars but all cars must have 4 wheels and an engine. Now all cars are euro6 standard, if you buy one car new now and it’s euro3, even if a wonderful engine i can not use it so is unuseful, we have seen this in leica many times from dng compatibility to lens firmware and many more. So if they reinvest in R&D as you say they reinvest in the wrong way. And this is told by a owner of many leica cameras. Everything i say i say because i love this brand and hope they do always better.

Especially a small factory like Leica that works with designated teams per product. They have to. It is not like the car business that shares platforms and engines across brands. And is stitched up in regulations.

With Leica special editions add to the bottom line and do not detract from camera development.

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Looking at the most recent special editions it would be hard to see where there was any cost involved or drag on R&D: about 10 minutes work I would think to come up will all of them. Most of them are so devoid of any creative effort or performance improvement that they are essentially free money, being bought by people who likely already have several collectibles, and just want another collectible.

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6 hours ago, jaapv said:

Especially a small factory like Leica that works with designated teams per product. They have to. It is not like the car business that shares platforms and engines across brands. And is stitched up in regulations.

With Leica special editions add to the bottom line and do not detract from camera development.

Again , not with you, sorry but always more often we are seeing industrial products like phones cobranded leica and again the example of mount L  shared and coengineered with panasonic and sigma...me too love leica and have done many effort to use as professional, but we shouldn’t be blind if there are problems we should be the first to recognize them and help to find a solution. 
the behavior i love indicriminately whatever they do is very distructive for all , customers and companies. A clear and sane discussion like this should be taken as example. Some people talking with respect try to find the main knot of the situation we doesn’t have to convince each other, be human doesn’t mean just talk , but use your own brain to make your own idea. It is also the basic rule of creativity.

 

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On 1/20/2020 at 7:00 AM, M.piras said:

i prefer to have the most information on the raw file, yes a direct monochrome sensor create may be easier to work images but it an “hardware” artifact that reduce my creativity.

However, converting an image captured with a color sensitive sensor to B/W will not give the same result as capturing the same image with a monochrome sensor. A colored raw image does not have more information. It has different information and its resolution is noticeably smaller.

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46 minutes ago, M.piras said:

Again , not with you, sorry but always more often we are seeing industrial products like phones cobranded leica and again the example of mount L  shared and coengineered with panasonic and sigma...me too love leica and have done many effort to use as professional, but we shouldn’t be blind if there are problems we should be the first to recognize them and help to find a solution. 
the behavior i love indicriminately whatever they do is very distructive for all , customers and companies. A clear and sane discussion like this should be taken as example. Some people talking with respect try to find the main knot of the situation we doesn’t have to convince each other, be human doesn’t mean just talk , but use your own brain to make your own idea. It is also the basic rule of creativity.

 

Sorry, you've lost me completely here.

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

Sorry, you've lost me completely here.

straw man fallacy - best ignore it.

 

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On 1/20/2020 at 7:00 AM, M.piras said:

Hi Le Chef, i don’t think it is in their project. Actually in the lat months Leica seems to be launched for profits only project multiplicating the commercial version of canera without any enhancement software or sensor side. They still have some very big bug in the firmware of CL and M10 (some very embarrassing) but instead of fix them with the new year we have seen m10 polar white (winter version...) CL paul smith (very colorful) and m10M . Here is the point by me, ( i love b/w and still shoot analog b/w ) i prefer to have the most information on the raw file, yes a direct monochrome sensor create may be easier to work images but it an “hardware” artifact that reduce my creativity. To be short, i hope leica stop to make “gadget” and go back to their ancestral love, photography.

I'm not aware of the "very big bugs" you're referring to but what you call "gadgets" are a tradition at Leica's since the thirties. Traditions like this are rare and valuable. Leica will hang onto them hopefully. YMMV. 
(Gold plated "Luxus II" from 1932, M4 Safari, gold plated M4-2)

  

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It’s nice too see colourful special editions. You’ve got choice beyond plain black Japanese cameras. Even them makes specials too. They are rarer but they exist too. 
 

Every company has the right to make extra money. I rather got a healthy Leica producing too many special editions than a bankrupt one with plain black Ms only line up. 
 

 

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