M-A repurposed MP body?

[Pyrogallol]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Nobody buys a digital Rolex, but many people here buy a digital Leica, with expectations of quality. But it’s just another computer, with a lens on the front.

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, Swordman said:

Come on now…you don’t surely believe that, do you? This is a Leica we’re talking about. It’s the camera equivalent of a Rolex. Nobody buys a Rolex because it tells the time better than other watches, because it doesn’t. They buy Rolex because it’s a well, recognised luxury watch with excellent build quality. As a tool, it falls short.

Leica cameras are basically the same thing. Performance-wise it trails behind other marques, and it costs triple the price. Nobody buys it as just a tool. They spend their money on something that's been marketed as a luxury item with superior build quality. At the prices they charge, I’d accept nothing but perfection.

Your sackcloth underpants must really itch.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[ianman]

2 hours ago, Swordman said:

Come on now…you don’t surely believe that, do you? This is a Leica we’re talking about. It’s the camera equivalent of a Rolex. Nobody buys a Rolex because it tells the time better than other watches, because it doesn’t. They buy Rolex because it’s a well, recognised luxury watch with excellent build quality. As a tool, it falls short.

Leica cameras are basically the same thing. Performance-wise it trails behind other marques, and it costs triple the price. Nobody buys it as just a tool. They spend their money on something that's been marketed as a luxury item with superior build quality. At the prices they charge, I’d accept nothing but perfection.

Just coming in so close the finish line we have a new entry for the forums 2021 Bollocks Of The Year contest.

[Swordman]

2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Your sackcloth underpants must really itch.

No, because I buy quality items.

Sorry to break the news to you, but the over-priced, second-hand underpants with the red dot you bought online from Japan weren’t washed when you received them. 

[Swordman]

1 hour ago, ianman said:

Just coming in so close the finish line we have a new entry for the forums 2021 Bollocks Of The Year contest.

This year’s Gatekeeper of the year goes to….

*drumroll*

ianman!

It’s ok mate, not everybody has exacting standards, but some of us do.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Swordman

[a.noctilux]

Last postings has little to do (or not at all) for MP/M-A  'repurpose' .

This thread is going anuwhere.

Edited December 23, 2021 by a.noctilux

[logan2z]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

7 hours ago, Swordman said:

Come on now…you don’t surely believe that, do you? This is a Leica we’re talking about. It’s the camera equivalent of a Rolex. Nobody buys a Rolex because it tells the time better than other watches, because it doesn’t. They buy Rolex because it’s a well, recognised luxury watch with excellent build quality. As a tool, it falls short.

Leica cameras are basically the same thing. Performance-wise it trails behind other marques, and it costs triple the price. Nobody buys it as just a tool. They spend their money on something that's been marketed as a luxury item with superior build quality. At the prices they charge, I’d accept nothing but perfection.

I don't personally see how the quality of the M-A is affected by the fact that it shares its body with the MP.  As an analogy, have you ever bought a car but didn't feel the need for a particular option so you didn't order it, and so the hole in the panel for the option's switch had a cover or 'blank' in its place?  Did that affect the quality of the car in some way?  I suspect it still drove and handled in the same way as the car with the option installed and didn't break down more frequently. 

I assume it simplifies the manufacturing process if Leica creates a single body and uses it for both cameras. That has no impact on the use/quality of the M-A.  You'll notice, however, that Leica uses a different viewfinder in the two cameras, since using the MP finder in the M-A would have resulted in a worse user experience of the unmetered camera.

If you don't like the fact that the M-A's body has a plugged hole for the missing meter then buy an MP.  But given your other anti-Leica comments in this thread, I suspect you're just here to troll the forum and aren't really interested in either camera.    

[Swordman]

1 hour ago, logan2z said:

I don't personally see how the quality of the M-A is affected by the fact that it shares its body with the MP.  As an analogy, have you ever bought a car but didn't feel the need for a particular option so you didn't order it, and so the hole in the panel for the option's switch had a cover or 'blank' in its place?  Did that affect the quality of the car in some way?  I suspect it still drove and handled in the same way as the car with the option installed and didn't break down more frequently. 

I assume it simplifies the manufacturing process if Leica creates a single body and uses it for both cameras. That has no impact on the use/quality of the M-A.  You'll notice, however, that Leica uses a different viewfinder in the two cameras, since using the MP finder in the M-A would have resulted in a worse user experience of the unmetered camera.

If you don't like the fact that the M-A's body has a plugged hole for the missing meter then buy an MP.  But given your other anti-Leica comments in this thread, I suspect you're just here to troll the forum and aren't really interested in either camera.    

I don’t have a problem with the blanking plate. It is what it is. However, in some cases the leatherette conceals it seamlessly, and in other cases, there’s some kind of bump / indent. That, coupled with other people’s quality control issues just isn’t good enough at that price point for some people. 

Leica pride themselves for being second to none, but I’ve seen more consistent build quality in Sony cameras. Go figure.

As it is, if I were to buy a modern Leica, the M-A would still be my pick. I’d make sure the dealer knows what I’m expecting before handing over my hard-earned.

[28framelines]

1 hour ago, Swordman said:

I don’t have a problem with the blanking plate. It is what it is. However, in some cases the leatherette conceals it seamlessly, and in other cases, there’s some kind of bump / indent. That, coupled with other people’s quality control issues just isn’t good enough at that price point for some people. 

Leica pride themselves for being second to none, but I’ve seen more consistent build quality in Sony cameras. Go figure.

As it is, if I were to buy a modern Leica, the M-A would still be my pick. I’d make sure the dealer knows what I’m expecting before handing over my hard-earned.

To be clear, the difference you’re comparing with Sony is honestly a bit moot; one is assembled by a machine, for the most part, the other by hand. The other difference is, as a software developer myself, Sony cameras, of all cameras, are the most like computers. I used to shoot with Sony, and got tired of using a computer during my hobby time. It’s a computer, whether you like it or not. Leica, or heck, Fuji or Nikon or Canon cameras, feel like cameras. People at these other camera companies put thought and care into making digital User Interfaces that try to get out of the way as much as possible (some more successful than others), meanwhile, since I got into photography back in 2015, people have complained about Sony menus and they STILL haven’t fixed them (Sony Engineers be like “ya put that feature on page 79 of the camera shutter settings menu”). If you are looking for perfection, I don’t suggest you buy a Leica, or shoot film at all. Buy your Sony A7 Mark 1 Billion, and shoot those neon sign portraits of people at night. Good thing Sony can shoot at ISO 100,000! Because seeing in the dark is something humans can do, right?! Right?!

All in all though: your Sony cameras probably use similar molds, if not exact same bodies, for different Sony cameras (A7R, A7, A7S, etc), just like Leica does with M-A and MP. Why? Because ask any engineer that has to design molds for manufacturing: making these molds can, in some cases, cost millions of dollars to make. It’s easier to fill in a hole or cut a new one than to make a new mold for each model.

[IkarusJohn]

Your 6 posts have been very … forthright.  There are pages and pages of similar comments, going back longer than I’ve been on the forum.

But then there are also really interesting and helpful posts about photography and Leica equipment.  Most people are members here for those posts.

[ianman]

5 hours ago, 28framelines said:

If you are looking for perfection, I don’t suggest you buy a Leica, or shoot film at all.

It depends on your understanding of perfection, but I don’t see what has film v digital got to do with build quality? The two film bodies, MP and Nikon FM2, I bought new were and still are in perfect working order. They may have scratches and knocks now but they are tools not jewellery, no change in the results.

[28framelines]

2 hours ago, ianman said:

It depends on your understanding of perfection, but I don’t see what has film v digital got to do with build quality? The two film bodies, MP and Nikon FM2, I bought new were and still are in perfect working order. They may have scratches and knocks now but they are tools not jewellery, no change in the results.

I agree with you, Ian. I just mean that, if he’s looking for “perfectly made”, newer manufacturing processes that greatly reduce human interaction in the build process will by default, remove human error.

[ianman]

7 hours ago, 28framelines said:

I agree with you, Ian. I just mean that, if he’s looking for “perfectly made”, newer manufacturing processes that greatly reduce human interaction in the build process will by default, remove human error.

Ah yes, I see what you mean, thanks for clarifying!

[comte de Mazan]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:31 AM, Pyrogallol said:

Nobody buys a digital Rolex, but many people here buy a digital Leica, with expectations of quality. But it’s just another computer, with a lens on the front.

I totally agree with you. The most ridiculous design was the Leica M 10-D with the  film advance lever...

[IkarusJohn]

6 hours ago, comte de Mazan said:

I totally agree with you. The most ridiculous design was the Leica M 10-D with the  film advance lever...

Oh yes, the M10-D!  Ridiculous.  Yes … might be my cold dead hands camera.

[StephenH]

 I wonder if the folks that bought the leica II f agonized over their cameras as being repurposed IIIfs

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Mute-on]

4 hours ago, StephenH said:

 I wonder if the folks that bought the leica II f agonized over their cameras as being repurposed IIIfs

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Yes indeed. Very likely not in the slightest.
 

Only the current generation of the overindulged and overentitled think that they are owed whatever their perception of perfection might be.  Shame. But really, who cares?

[250swb]

On 12/23/2021 at 11:39 AM, Swordman said:

No, because I buy quality items.

Sorry to break the news to you, but the over-priced, second-hand underpants with the red dot you bought online from Japan weren’t washed when you received them. 

I had no idea this thread had become so exciting.

I'd just like to point out the world is not as perfect as many people with their heads in the clouds like to believe. I already knew that Rolex make extensive use of Zenith movements, but recently watching 'The Grand Tour- Carnage A Trois' (a motoring programme for intellectuals) I discovered that Rolls Royce licensed Citroen suspension for the Silver Wraith and that Aston Martin use Citroen door mirrors for one of their production cars. From personal experience the switches in my Toyota are the same switches in a Lexus, albeit cheaper than Lexus if you want to buy a replacement. I had an old Alfa Romeo and it's replacement Carello sidelight was an expensive £35, the very same light is used on a Ferrari 250GTO and a replacement is £250 if you shop 'Ferrari'. So buying quality items doesn't mean you are getting any better quality, often you are flattered into paying more. And we know that everything branded 'Leica' is not made inhouse by specially trained craftsmen but people banging stuff out on a production line many miles (often Continents) away.

Edited December 25, 2021 by 250swb

[malligator]

On 12/22/2021 at 11:32 PM, Swordman said:

Come on now…you don’t surely believe that, do you? This is a Leica we’re talking about. It’s the camera equivalent of a Rolex. Nobody buys a Rolex because it tells the time better than other watches, because it doesn’t. They buy Rolex because it’s a well, recognised luxury watch with excellent build quality. As a tool, it falls short.

Leica cameras are basically the same thing. Performance-wise it trails behind other marques, and it costs triple the price. Nobody buys it as just a tool. They spend their money on something that's been marketed as a luxury item with superior build quality. At the prices they charge, I’d accept nothing but perfection.

I shoot photos with a Leica M-A and I time deco stops with a Rolex 16610 Sub. If either tool falls short it's my fault, not theirs.

Edited December 26, 2021 by malligator

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Swordman]

1 hour ago, malligator said:

I shoot photos with a Leica M-A and I time deco stops with a Rolex 16610 Sub. If either tool falls short it's my fault, not theirs.

Well, the Rolex is fundamentally worse than a G-Shock in every measurable way.