Leica M10-R

[mujk]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

3 hours ago, blacksinner said:

well its a canon. 😅

Pixel pitch as such has very little to do with image quality, except that when all other things are equal, i.e. sensor technology is exactly the same, bigger photosites (higher pixel pitch) will collect more photons (light) than smaller ones and will thus be less sensitive to noise. Because sensor technology is constantly developing, comparing pixel pitch between sensors of different technology and age doesn't tell anything about their relative image quality. The M9 and M10 have sensors of completely different technology (CCD/CMOS) and age.

[blacksinner]

5 hours ago, mujk said:

Pixel pitch as such has very little to do with image quality, except that when all other things are equal, i.e. sensor technology is exactly the same, bigger photosites (higher pixel pitch) will collect more photons (light) than smaller ones and will thus be less sensitive to noise. Because sensor technology is constantly developing, comparing pixel pitch between sensors of different technology and age doesn't tell anything about their relative image quality. The M9 and M10 have sensors of completely different technology (CCD/CMOS) and age.

well i don't know all the details. but i like m9 ccd better than m10. and many people do. and many people wondering why. and i'm one of them. so, can you explain it since you seem understand it quite well. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[adan]

Could be because Kodak, with their 70 years experience with Kodachrome, made the M8/M9 CCD sensors, and chose Bayer filters with particular color transmissions that targeted the K'chrome "look". It has always been my theory that one reason Leica CCD cameras ran behind the competition in high-ISO range is that they (and Kodak) used filtering with a narrower spectral transmission range (less light got through, but it was purer in color).

Could be because the CCD sensors had less dynamic range - they produce punchy images like color slides, whereas sensors with more DR capture more tonal range, like color neg films, at the expense of *pop*.

Could depend on which camera profile you use (Leica embedded, Adobe, home-made).

Pop quiz: Can you tell which of these you like more? Can you say why you like it more? Can you tell which is M9 and which is M10?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[nicci78]

I would say that second one is M9

It would have been easier with a portrait shot. 
Skin tones will tell them apart more easily. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by nicci78

[bags27]

4 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I would say that second one is M9

It would have been easier with a portrait shot. 
Skin tones will tell them apart more easily. 

+1

The reds especially stand out on #2. #1 appears to me just a wee bit sharper.

Edited February 24, 2020 by bags27

[mujk]

I would say #2 and M9 as well. But it depends very much on the profile used.

[Kwesi]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I would say #2 is the M10 file and the one I prefer. I like it because there is more separation in the tones.

[Mr.Prime]

i prefer the first one without a doubt

[blacksinner]

i wish m10R will handle highlight more easier. i have difficulties to recover highlight. i tend to having exposure comp set to -1 now.

[adan]

I've used -0.7 to -1.0 in every M digital since 2006....

It is the unique metering (which must be learned).

[adan]

20 hours ago, nicci78 said:

I would say that second one is M9

It would have been easier with a portrait shot. 
Skin tones will tell them apart more easily. 

Whose/which skins tones? "White" Europeans? And if so, Mediterranean, or Scandinavian? And what about the other 85% of the world?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Anyway, I will reveal all once blacksinner responds, since he raised the question.

Edited February 25, 2020 by adan

[nicci78]

Any skin tones are fine for the test. 
M9 will still be distinct enough. 

 

 

[m410]

Second image is M10.  

Btw, thanks for the posting with the interesting examples and question.

[Chris O]

Right now I have a Q, but have been thinking of moving to the M digital system. I've been waiting for a sensor that has better dynamic range and low light performance, but not necessarily more megapixels. I own a number of Leica lenses that I use on my M7 right now.

I've been hearing a lot that this new camera is going to require super high quality (like APO) lenses because of the high megapixel count, and don't know what to believe. One YouTube Vlogger, Leica Review, even states that you will have a higher percentage of missed shots given the high megapixels and lack of IBIS. Is this something to be worried about? Would an M10R be potentially too high-res for my older lenses? Will I miss a lot of shots given my lower end lenses and the lack of IBIS? One thing I like about my Q a lot is that it's pretty easy to use and very reliable when it comes to results.

Thanks for the advice ahead of time, always appreciate you all sharing your knowledge!

Edited February 26, 2020 by Omegahalo@gmail.com

[Bo-Sixten]

As an owner of M10 Monochrom (probably with a corresponding effective pixel count to M10R) as well as an M10 my view on this is that all lenses, old or new generations, benefit from the higher resolution sensor without losing their characteristics. All lenses look sharper. So far I have noted no shaking blurriness, but I shoot at 1/4f most of the time. The newer silent shutter is super smooth and the ISO performance on M10M fantastic so I don't miss IBIS at all. I normally print A3 super size.

When pixel peeping at 100% you will note any lens weakness eg at the frame edges shooting wide open or if your RF focus is out of alignment more easily.

To really utilise the M10M (or M10R) extremely fine sensor and its capabilities resolution wise for very large prints I do recommend the APO lenses. The image resolution is then superb.

[jaapv]

5 hours ago, Omegahalo@gmail.com said:

Right now I have a Q, but have been thinking of moving to the M digital system. I've been waiting for a sensor that has better dynamic range and low light performance, but not necessarily more megapixels. I own a number of Leica lenses that I use on my M7 right now.

I've been hearing a lot that this new camera is going to require super high quality (like APO) lenses because of the high megapixel count, and don't know what to believe. One YouTube Vlogger, Leica Review, even states that you will have a higher percentage of missed shots given the high megapixels and lack of IBIS. Is this something to be worried about? Would an M10R be potentially too high-res for my older lenses? Will I miss a lot of shots given my lower end lenses and the lack of IBIS? One thing I like about my Q a lot is that it's pretty easy to use and very reliable when it comes to results.

Thanks for the advice ahead of time, always appreciate you all sharing your knowledge!

Repeating all the half-truths...

[bags27]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Repeating all the half-truths...

When one talks about lens performance on a camera that doesn't even exist yet, half-truths is a pretty good hit rate. 🙂

[jdlaing]

There is not a sensor made on this planet that will out resolve a Leica lens.

[bags27]

8 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

There is not a sensor made on this planet that will out resolve a Leica lens.

NRAO VLA? 😀

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[M11 for me]

Just to mention that Canon and Nikon just launch new lenses for their new high resolution sensors in their cameras