blacksinner Posted February 24, 2020 Share #101 Posted February 24, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 5 hours ago, mujk said: Pixel pitch as such has very little to do with image quality, except that when all other things are equal, i.e. sensor technology is exactly the same, bigger photosites (higher pixel pitch) will collect more photons (light) than smaller ones and will thus be less sensitive to noise. Because sensor technology is constantly developing, comparing pixel pitch between sensors of different technology and age doesn't tell anything about their relative image quality. The M9 and M10 have sensors of completely different technology (CCD/CMOS) and age. well i don't know all the details. but i like m9 ccd better than m10. and many people do. and many people wondering why. and i'm one of them. so, can you explain it since you seem understand it quite well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 Hi blacksinner, Take a look here Leica M10-R. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted February 24, 2020 Share #102 Posted February 24, 2020 Could be because Kodak, with their 70 years experience with Kodachrome, made the M8/M9 CCD sensors, and chose Bayer filters with particular color transmissions that targeted the K'chrome "look". It has always been my theory that one reason Leica CCD cameras ran behind the competition in high-ISO range is that they (and Kodak) used filtering with a narrower spectral transmission range (less light got through, but it was purer in color). Could be because the CCD sensors had less dynamic range - they produce punchy images like color slides, whereas sensors with more DR capture more tonal range, like color neg films, at the expense of *pop*. Could depend on which camera profile you use (Leica embedded, Adobe, home-made). Pop quiz: Can you tell which of these you like more? Can you say why you like it more? Can you tell which is M9 and which is M10? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305447-leica-m10-r/?do=findComment&comment=3918698'>More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted February 24, 2020 Share #103 Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) I would say that second one is M9 It would have been easier with a portrait shot. Skin tones will tell them apart more easily. Edited February 24, 2020 by nicci78 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted February 24, 2020 Share #104 Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, nicci78 said: I would say that second one is M9 It would have been easier with a portrait shot. Skin tones will tell them apart more easily. +1 The reds especially stand out on #2. #1 appears to me just a wee bit sharper. Edited February 24, 2020 by bags27 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted February 24, 2020 Share #105 Posted February 24, 2020 I would say #2 and M9 as well. But it depends very much on the profile used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted February 24, 2020 Share #106 Posted February 24, 2020 I would say #2 is the M10 file and the one I prefer. I like it because there is more separation in the tones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Prime Posted February 24, 2020 Share #107 Posted February 24, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) i prefer the first one without a doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksinner Posted February 25, 2020 Share #108 Posted February 25, 2020 i wish m10R will handle highlight more easier. i have difficulties to recover highlight. i tend to having exposure comp set to -1 now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 25, 2020 Share #109 Posted February 25, 2020 I've used -0.7 to -1.0 in every M digital since 2006.... It is the unique metering (which must be learned). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 25, 2020 Share #110 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, nicci78 said: I would say that second one is M9 It would have been easier with a portrait shot. Skin tones will tell them apart more easily. Whose/which skins tones? "White" Europeans? And if so, Mediterranean, or Scandinavian? And what about the other 85% of the world? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Anyway, I will reveal all once blacksinner responds, since he raised the question. Edited February 25, 2020 by adan Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Anyway, I will reveal all once blacksinner responds, since he raised the question. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/305447-leica-m10-r/?do=findComment&comment=3919328'>More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted February 25, 2020 Share #111 Posted February 25, 2020 Any skin tones are fine for the test. M9 will still be distinct enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m410 Posted February 25, 2020 Share #112 Posted February 25, 2020 Second image is M10. Btw, thanks for the posting with the interesting examples and question. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris O Posted February 26, 2020 Share #113 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Right now I have a Q, but have been thinking of moving to the M digital system. I've been waiting for a sensor that has better dynamic range and low light performance, but not necessarily more megapixels. I own a number of Leica lenses that I use on my M7 right now. I've been hearing a lot that this new camera is going to require super high quality (like APO) lenses because of the high megapixel count, and don't know what to believe. One YouTube Vlogger, Leica Review, even states that you will have a higher percentage of missed shots given the high megapixels and lack of IBIS. Is this something to be worried about? Would an M10R be potentially too high-res for my older lenses? Will I miss a lot of shots given my lower end lenses and the lack of IBIS? One thing I like about my Q a lot is that it's pretty easy to use and very reliable when it comes to results. Thanks for the advice ahead of time, always appreciate you all sharing your knowledge! Edited February 26, 2020 by Omegahalo@gmail.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo-Sixten Posted February 26, 2020 Share #114 Posted February 26, 2020 As an owner of M10 Monochrom (probably with a corresponding effective pixel count to M10R) as well as an M10 my view on this is that all lenses, old or new generations, benefit from the higher resolution sensor without losing their characteristics. All lenses look sharper. So far I have noted no shaking blurriness, but I shoot at 1/4f most of the time. The newer silent shutter is super smooth and the ISO performance on M10M fantastic so I don't miss IBIS at all. I normally print A3 super size. When pixel peeping at 100% you will note any lens weakness eg at the frame edges shooting wide open or if your RF focus is out of alignment more easily. To really utilise the M10M (or M10R) extremely fine sensor and its capabilities resolution wise for very large prints I do recommend the APO lenses. The image resolution is then superb. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2020 Share #115 Posted February 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Omegahalo@gmail.com said: Right now I have a Q, but have been thinking of moving to the M digital system. I've been waiting for a sensor that has better dynamic range and low light performance, but not necessarily more megapixels. I own a number of Leica lenses that I use on my M7 right now. I've been hearing a lot that this new camera is going to require super high quality (like APO) lenses because of the high megapixel count, and don't know what to believe. One YouTube Vlogger, Leica Review, even states that you will have a higher percentage of missed shots given the high megapixels and lack of IBIS. Is this something to be worried about? Would an M10R be potentially too high-res for my older lenses? Will I miss a lot of shots given my lower end lenses and the lack of IBIS? One thing I like about my Q a lot is that it's pretty easy to use and very reliable when it comes to results. Thanks for the advice ahead of time, always appreciate you all sharing your knowledge! Repeating all the half-truths... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted February 26, 2020 Share #116 Posted February 26, 2020 5 hours ago, jaapv said: Repeating all the half-truths... When one talks about lens performance on a camera that doesn't even exist yet, half-truths is a pretty good hit rate. 🙂 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 26, 2020 Share #117 Posted February 26, 2020 There is not a sensor made on this planet that will out resolve a Leica lens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted February 26, 2020 Share #118 Posted February 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, jdlaing said: There is not a sensor made on this planet that will out resolve a Leica lens. NRAO VLA? 😀 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted February 26, 2020 Share #119 Posted February 26, 2020 Just to mention that Canon and Nikon just launch new lenses for their new high resolution sensors in their cameras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2020 Share #120 Posted February 26, 2020 Please people, read Roger again: (including the comments) https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2019/10/more-ultra-high-resolution-mtf-experiments/ There is not one sensor on this planet that "outresolves" a lens, nor is there a lens that "outresolves" a sensor. Given a reasonable quality level, any lens will perform better on a better sensor and any sensor will perform better using a better lens. 4 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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