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Fast(er) 28mm and quirky haptics question


ardbeg

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I recently acquired a Summaron 28. Very much enjoy its rendering and field of view compared to the 35 which it replaced. With this discovery that I visually prefer 28 to 35 (and 24) on the wider side, I would like to eventually augment the Summaron with a faster 28 for situations (e.g. dusk and indoors) where the Summaron is not optimal. A 1.4 is not necessary per se (just faster than 5.6) although I have no weight restrictions. One more quirky preference is I am not a fan of focus tabs. Are there any fast(er) 28s of any vintage of Leica, Zeiss, or CV sans focus tabs? If not, so be it; I’d still like to get a faster lens.

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I find the Elmarit-M 28mm Asph (f 2.8) very attractive (excellent IQ). It is very light and affordable.   But I did not buy it, yet. Since many years I'm using the predecessor (Elmarit version 4, which is not aspherical, yet. But somehow it was always good enough, though a little bit bigger.)

Edited by caissa
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48 minutes ago, ardbeg said:

 One more quirky preference is I am not a fan of focus tabs. Are there any fast(er) 28s of any vintage of Leica, Zeiss, or CV sans focus tabs? If not, so be it; I’d still like to get a faster lens.

M mount 28mm with no focus tab that is not so common.

I have Konica M-Hexanon 28mm f/2.8 very nice (but big) lens.

Another outsider can be the so called MATE (Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50) first model my wife's favorite lens.

Benefit of three-in-one focal lengths if only f/4, one stop faster than Summaron-M 28mm.

 

Other old choices ...

LTM with M adapter that I use ?

Canon LTM 28mm is tiny without tab but with infinity lock and only f/3.5 .

Ricoh GR lens 2.8/28mm has tab and ring (not that common, as like the Summilux-M asph. 50mm).

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1 hour ago, ardbeg said:

One more quirky preference is I am not a fan of focus tabs. Are there any fast(er) 28s of any vintage of Leica, Zeiss, or CV sans focus tabs? [...]

All current 28/1.4, 28/2, 28/2.8 and 28/5.6 Leica M lenses have a focus tab i fear. Same for previous ones IINW. Same also for CV 28/2 and 28/3.5 although the latter has no focus tab but a focus stick. Remains the ZM 28/2.8 which has a focus bump instead of a tab, like other ZM lenses. So no M 28 w/o focus aid i'm afraid, aside from the Hexanon, MATE and 7artisans referred to by a.noctilux and jdlaing, but i may be wrong. LTM lenses are another story.

Edited by lct
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1 hour ago, ardbeg said:

I recently acquired a Summaron 28. Very much enjoy its rendering and field of view compared to the 35 which it replaced. With this discovery that I visually prefer 28 to 35 (and 24) on the wider side, I would like to eventually augment the Summaron with a faster 28 for situations (e.g. dusk and indoors) where the Summaron is not optimal. A 1.4 is not necessary per se (just faster than 5.6) although I have no weight restrictions. One more quirky preference is I am not a fan of focus tabs. Are there any fast(er) 28s of any vintage of Leica, Zeiss, or CV sans focus tabs? If not, so be it; I’d still like to get a faster lens.

7artisans has a very nice 28mm f/1.4 lens that does not have a focus tab bit one is included in the box if you wish to add it.

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Sorry, this lens (see number 5, 7art...) is no match. You can call it a 1.4, but it is disappointing if you have a closer look. Buy it for fun (like a mobile phone). Probably the newer phones (iphone 11 or the Leica phone) produce better quality.

And about the Konica, maybe the lens is good, I have no experience. But Rockwell is not really a serious reference for me, sorry. (He writes a lot ...)   (And he also writes a lot about the "leicaman", letting out his frustration. A bit like Trump on a smaller scale. So it is really funny that he is referenced here on a forum for Leicamen  ...   :rolleyes::D  )

Maybe the Leica phone (P20, P30, P40, ... and their siblings) is your best option....

BTW: The Konica is available in the Leica shop in Vienna. (Vintage cameras)

Edited by caissa
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15 minutes ago, caissa said:

Sorry, this lens (see number 5, 7art...) is no match. You can call it a 1.4, but it is disappointing if you have a closer look. Buy it for fun (like a mobile phone). Probably the newer phones (iphone 11 or the Leica phone) produce better quality.

Did you read what jdlaing wrote above? I have no experience with this lens but my 7art 35/2 is very good indeed.

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Caissa, funny that I don't read KR for years.

The link may be better choosen, sorry for that.

The link is only for the OP to see how the M-Hexanon 28mm looks like, the only 28mm lens without focus tab that I know of

I don't have a picture of the lens to share, even if I do use this nice lens for decade (s).

Edited by a.noctilux
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13 minutes ago, lct said:

Did you read what jdlaing wrote above? I have no experience with this lens but my 7art 35/2 is very good indeed.

I have used the 7art 1.4 28mm . That is why I wrote what I wrote. Did you read what i wrote ?   Do you know the difference between 35 and 28 mm  ?  Do you know what this means regarding your snarky remarks ?    Exactly, you have no experience ....    That's why you write to me in that style ....        Thank you. Very nice.

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2 minutes ago, caissa said:

I have used the 7art 1.4 28mm . That is why I wrote what I wrote. Did you read what i wrote ?   Do you know the difference between 35 and 28 mm  ?  Do you know what this means regarding your snarky remarks ?    Exactly, you have no experience ....    That's why you write to me in that style ....        Thank you. Very nice.

Uh?

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2 minutes ago, caissa said:

I have used the 7art 1.4 28mm . That is why I wrote what I wrote. Did you read what i wrote ?   Do you know the difference between 35 and 28 mm  ?  Do you know what this means regarding your snarky remarks ?    Exactly, you have no experience ....    That's why you write to me in that style ....        Thank you. Very nice.

May we calm down ?

We are here sharing experiences, nothing wrong with that.

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38 minutes ago, caissa said:

Sorry, this lens (see number 5, 7art...) is no match. You can call it a 1.4, but it is disappointing if you have a closer look. Buy it for fun (like a mobile phone). Probably the newer phones (iphone 11 or the Leica phone) produce better quality.

 

Well I've had a closer look, a friend lent me his to try and I was so impressed (for the price) that I ordered my own copy, happy user here.  I've had a bit of fun with it on my CL and M10

 

Edited by Boojay
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I forgot the little M-Rokkor 28/2.8 for Minolta CLE but it has a focus knob and it is not a fast lens so the only candidate seems to remain the 7art 28/1.4. What caissa wrote above sounds so strange to me that i suspect he's got a faulty copy. Now again i have no experience with this lens. 

Edited by lct
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8 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Caissa, funny that I don't read KR for years.

The link may be better choosen, sorry for that.

The link is only for the OP to see how the M-Hexanon 28mm looks like, the only 28mm lens without focus tab that I know of

I don't have a picture of the lens to share, even if I do use this nice lens for decade (s).

The link is no problem (no need to defend it). But still Rockwell is a strange/funny reference for a Leicaman in a Leica forum .  Let's together laugh about it !  (Am I allowed to say that I find him not too serious)

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40 minutes ago, Boojay said:

Well I've had a closer look, a friend lent me his to try and I was so impressed (for the price) that I ordered my own copy, happy user here.  I've had a bit of fun with it on my CL and M10

It's fine if you like it. It depends on expectations. I would not recommend it, that's all. (And yes, with cheaper lenses the variation is often quite big. So I think it is a risk to buy one of these. Unless it is for fun.)  You get a used Contax 28mm 2.8 for half the price. When I tested them the Contax was by far the better lens, but of course no f 1.4 or f2.0 .  And now as cameras go even higher up in resolution (41 MP monochrom and 47 MP SL2) the quality out of center counts even more. And expectations grow with it.

And if you look at the test of Philip Reeve (you certainly have), then the weaknesses are obvious (no, I will not repeat them). In my eyes of all these lenses the Elmarit-M has the best value (also in the long term). That's a personal opinion of course. (Yes the knob is wrong, but so what, but the IQ is top, even under adverse circumstances).  Funny again: Even Rockwell recommends this Leica lens. (It is a no-brainer for him because it's small, it's good and it goes up in value. No reason to buy an inferior foreign lens. But in another place he recommends the Zeiss 2.8/28. That's the problem, he is not always consistent.)

Here the link so that everybody can have a look. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-7artisans-28mm-1-4-fe-plus/ (It is the slightly improved lens for the Sony, but generally "the same". He also has a review of the very first version for M that was later slightly improved.)  (v1 and v2 for M, v3 for a7)

Edited by caissa
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10 minutes ago, Boojay said:

Well I've had a closer look, a friend lent me his to try and I was so impressed (for the price) that I ordered my own copy, happy user here.  I've had a bit of fun with it on my CL and M10

Is there a special model for the CL? Just asking as the lens seems to protrude a lot.

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15 minutes ago, lct said:

Is there a special model for the CL? Just asking as the lens seems to protrude a lot.

Not as far as I know.. I have M mount, downsides are it's big and relatively heavy, but it is 1.4 and for £325 which is what I paid new including shipping it's pretty blooming good.  Does need a hood though.. which I have now ordered from China.

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Edited by Boojay
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29 minutes ago, caissa said:

It's fine if you like it. It depends on expectations. I would not recommend it, that's all. (And yes, with cheaper lenses the variation is often quite big. So I think it is a risk to buy one of these. Unless it is for fun.)  You get a used Contax 28mm 2.8 for half the price. When I tested them the Contax was by far the better lens, but of course no f 1.4 or f2.0 .  And now as cameras go even higher up in resolution (41 MP monochrom and 47 MP SL2) the quality out of center counts even more. And expectations grow with it.

And if you look at the test of Philip Reeve (you certainly have), then the weaknesses are obvious (no, I will not repeat them). In my eyes of all these lenses the Elmarit-M has the best value (also in the long term). That's a personal opinion of course. (Yes the knob is wrong, but so what, but the IQ is top, even under adverse circumstances).

Here the link so that everybody can have a look. https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-7artisans-28mm-1-4-fe-plus/ (It is the slightly improved lens for the Sony, but generally "the same". He also has a review of the very first version for M that was later slightly improved.)  (v1 and v2 for M, v3 for a7)

While I do read the odd review I often just feel I have to try something for myself - sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't.   One thing we can definitely agree on I also think the Elmarit-M is a great all round 28mm with regard to IQ, value, size, weight etc.  I stupidly sold mine a couple of years ago thinking I had no use for it when I got a Q, how silly that was.   Sure I will buy another someday.

 

Edited by Boojay
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I should also mention I have a R to M adaptor (currently used to mount an Elmarit R 180 on my M10). Any recommended (and attainable) R mount 28s I should consider? Again, I already lug around the 180, a 90 summicron-M v1 (e48), and a 50/1 Noctilux, so weight isn’t an issue.

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