Why I went back to Leica S007 from X1D

[Milan_S]

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A little background of myself, I earn my money by taking portraits and having multiple M systems and lenses I always carry a MF system because I love the rendering for my staged photoshoots. I started with an S2, tried the S006 and upgraded my S2 to a S007. I was always very happy with my S007 but I often struggled with the 100mm f2 for focus and I believed the Mirrorless MF system would fulfill my needs better. After having test the Fuji (which was a piece of plastic and the colors and rendering were far off the S line) I loved the look and feeling of the Hasselblad X1D so I got rid of my S007 with 100mm f2 but kept my Summarit-S 70mm CS in the hope that the S3 would one day be released. The X1D was light, felt good in the hand, has sharp lenses with leaf shutters and has a moveable focus point and performed well at high resolution. In the beginning it was a honey moon I but after a while I started to miss the OVF and mature feeling of the S line and the lenses (although X1D lenses are very sharp) the XCD 45mm and XCD 90mm never gave me the rendering of the S lenses. The X1D also frustrated me of the short battery life, the feeling of a prototype often the focus point didn't move correctly and the interface was buggy even after all the latest firmware updates. 

Today I found a demo model S007 in a new condition and grabbed it I will shoot it the following time with only the 70mm CS lens but I might slowely add the 100mm f2.0 (which I stupidly sold) or maybe a 120mm CS. 
Some might call the S as we know it will be the end but I believe the S system will be a classic camera a true Leica cult camera. 
Attached some photos of my shoots with the S...

 

 

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Edited January 15, 2020 by Milan_S

[John McMaster]

I looked at the X1D as a replacement for my M kit, but I was not convinced by what I saw (never seen/handled one) in the files I got...

john

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[Stuart Richardson]

I was on a shoot today with a friend with an X1D Version 2, with the 45mm lens, and he was pointing it at a building in good light. It could not focus on it. There was plenty of contrast. It was very weird. He turned the camera off and on again, and it focused on it fine. He seemed somewhat frustrated by the system (it was on loan). It did not inspire me with a lot of confidence to be honest...any camera system I have ever seen with AF could focus on this...it was a building at about 100 meters in daylight...not the greatest advertisement for the system! It was not just one time, either. He tried to focus on it a bunch of times, and it just could not do it...at least until he rebooted the camera.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Stuart Richardson

[peterv]

Welcome back to the party 🥳 

[albertknappmd]

I have looked at the competition periodically over the past six years but was never tempted because of their shortcomings eg. overall optical quality and design as well as to the lack of breath.

Welcome home!

Albert

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[darylgo]

Couldn't agree more, waiting to see a little life breathed into the system with the new S3 but my S-E makes me happy.  

[LeicaR10]

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Milan S,  Welcome back.  I found the same thing two years ago when I left the S system for Fuji and Hasselblad.  My corporate and private collector clients simply didn't like the way both cameras rendered and eBay quickly found both systems new homes.  (It wasn't a color management issue either)  I came back to the S007 and found my clients returned voting with their wallets.  IMO, the S cameras and superb S lenses are top shelf and these tools render what I envision in that moment in time.  I can't ask for more.  My clients are happy and I am glad I came back to the S system with no regrets.  r/ Mark

Edited January 16, 2020 by LeicaR10

[setuporg]

S certainly renders best.  The OVF rules.  But it is big and heavy.  I think that contradiction will stay with us forever.:)

[Milan_S]

Yes true, the rendering is out of this world having tried most of the Leica cameras, the SL2 and lenses might be better on paper, the SL2 doesn't have that rendering which I love of the S system... I don't need IBIS, face recognition or other bells and whistles. I just want a reliable system with a lovely rendering and the basics of a good camera system. 

Mark my words, the S will be a classic cult camera...

Another photo to praise the S with the Summicron-S 100mm f2.0

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[analog-digital]

Reasons to prefer the Hasselblad X1D-50c:

• More detail: Offers more megapixels (51.3 vs 37.5MP) with a 15% higher linear resolution.
• More framing info: Has an electronic viewfinder that displays shooting data.
• Fewer buttons to press: Is equipped with a touch-sensitive rear screen to facilitate handling.
• Easier time-lapse photography: Has an intervalometer built-in for low frequency shooting.
• More compact: Is smaller (150x98mm vs 160x120mm) and thus needs less room in the bag.
• Less heavy: Is lighter (by 535g or 42 percent) and hence easier to carry around.
• More legacy lens friendly: Can take a broad range of non-native lenses via adapters.
• More affordable: Was introduced into a lower priced category (63 percent cheaper at launch).
• More modern: Is somewhat more recent (announced 1 year and 9 months after the S Typ 007).

 

 

Arguments in favor of the Leica S (Typ 007):

• Better video: Provides higher definition movie capture (4K/24p vs 1080/25p).
• Brighter framing: Features an optical viewfinder for clear, lag-free composition.
• Easier setting verification: Features a control panel on top to check shooting parameters.
• Faster shutter: Has higher mechanical shutter speed (1/4000s vs 1/2000s) to freeze action.
• Faster burst: Shoots at higher frequency (3.5 vs 2.3 flaps/sec) to capture the decisive moment.
• Easier geotagging: Features an internal GPS sensor to log localization data.
• Faster buffer clearing: Supports a more advanced SD data transfer standard (UHS-II vs UHS-I).
• More heavily discounted: Has been on the market for longer (launched in September 2014).

[Photon42]

17 minutes ago, Milan_S said:

Mark my words, the S will be a classic cult camera...

Not planning to mark any words, but let me say I am not surprised. I tried the X1D twice and it just does not cut it, if you are not landscape / tripod only.

I remember your AF frustration with the 100, but at that time I felt you compare apples with oranges when comparing it to the 90 f3.2.

Maybe you want to pick up a 120 for a change, before the S3 comes out. They are much easier to find at a good price. No AF issues and good minimal focus distance, which can be very versatile. They even come in a CS version and match well from a focal length perspective with the 70.

[mgrayson3]

My last three systems: S(007), X1D, GFX100. I still have the S body and lenses, as they provide the most satisfying output and shooting experience. The X1D never appealed to me (I needed a light system for a year - once I recovered strength, I sold it). The ONLY advantage of the GFX100 is IBIS. This doesn't matter much for shooting, but is wonderful for magnified manual focus. My OOF shots dropped from 30% with the S to zero with the Fuji. For all the perfection of the Fuji G lenses, I prefer the look of the S. The 24, 70, and 120, in particular, are glorious. I don't do enough portraiture to really get the best from the 100, and the 120 is already a damn fine portrait lens at f/2.5.

Oh, the 37.5 vs 100 MP? I have never printed large enough for it to matter - 40" long edge.

My 2p,

Matt

[davidmknoble]

I actually spent a long time using the M system - both film and digital, monochrom included.  I tried the S system for landscape work and have been in love ever since.  In the end, the deciding factor to keep that (although I still use the M system) was the color and detail out of the camera.  This shot, while I did adjust some in Lightroom, had very little sharpening applied, i.e., the standard in Lightroom when you open up an image.  I also applied no texture or other detail enhancing edits.  For me, the S really does paint on the image and it does not look mechanical, it looks like a painting or film.  I used the Fuji XPro1 and the XT for about 2 years in conjunction with the M9 and MM, and in the end, I just did not like the image files.  I am sure there are some out there, but I have yet to encounter a digital camera that paints like this.  

IMHO...

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[albireo_double]

I still have and use the S007 and love the output but to claim that the rendering is so unique...I am not that sure (maybe true for the 120). There are comparably great options out there, in my view. I have not shot with the X1D, so can't comment, but have been shooting with a Phase One XF as of late, with a couple of Blue Ring lenses, and I use the SL with native lenses also quite often. I can achieve the look that I want with any of these systems. Other factors play a bigger role for me, such as - for the XF - seamless tethering with Capture One, which I have finally learned to use and love, after many years of Lightroom. Or, with the SL, the ability to shift the AF point anywhere in the frame, to achieve a quicker and more spontaneous shooting experience with my model. And before anyone chimes in regarding the price difference between Phase One and the S.... I managed to buy a second hand XF body and an IQ3 100 back for about the same price the S007 body is still listed new on my dealer's website. Lenses Blue Ring, purchased second hand, at prices comparable to the S lenses (plus a mint silver ring Schneider Kreuznach LS 80 for just 400 Eur on eBay...).

As for 37.5 vs 100MP - the difference in resolution does not matter that much to me (but yes, it is visible and the 100MP files are just jaw dropping on the screen). The largest I print is 60x80 cm for which the S output is fine. It is more a question of format,  - I find myself cropping to 4:3 and 5:4 more often nowadays (it's Instagram's fault...) and have to discipline myself more when shooting with the S, to keep room for subsequent cropping. This is more easily done with the SL where one can switch the EVF to another format. 

I have considered selling the S system but the used prices are so low that I will just keep using it, especially for outdoors shoots when I don't need to tether, appreciate a weather sealed robust camera/lenses and leaf shutters for syncing strobes. Also great for travel. 

https://www.martindrazsky.com

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Edited January 17, 2020 by albireo_double

[davidmknoble]

1 hour ago, albireo_double said:

I still have and use the S007 and love the output but to claim that the rendering is so unique...I am not that sure (maybe true for the 120). There are comparably great options out there, in my view.

 

I think there probably are comparable systems and if I had to guess, I would suspect the Phase One backs are probably really great.  The lens, while I am sure it has a lot to do with results, was not the key for me. It was the sensor and how the sensor renders the colors, tones and the dynamic range of the sensor. 

It's ironic you mention Capture One as I make an annual look at the software, but they refuse to add the Leica S as a supported camera with the M, SL, and Q, but they will support the Fuji and Sony.  I would love to try Capture One, but not if I can't also use it with S files...  Nice Shot Albireo!

[peterv]

2 hours ago, albireo_double said:

I managed to buy a second hand XF body and an IQ3 100 back for about the same price the S007 body is still listed new on my dealer's website. Lenses Blue Ring, purchased second hand, at prices comparable to the S lenses (plus a mint silver ring Schneider Kreuznach LS 80 for just 400 Eur on eBay...).

 

Very good, congratulations! You have nice equipment to play around with and I really do like your website. I'm not much into nudes nowadays but I can clearly see you put a lot of nice light, styling and generally high production value in those. I like your landscapes very much, too.

[geetee1972]

On 1/17/2020 at 10:32 PM, davidmknoble said:

I think there probably are comparable systems and if I had to guess, I would suspect the Phase One backs are probably really great.  The lens, while I am sure it has a lot to do with results, was not the key for me. It was the sensor and how the sensor renders the colors, tones and the dynamic range of the sensor. 

It's ironic you mention Capture One as I make an annual look at the software, but they refuse to add the Leica S as a supported camera with the M, SL, and Q, but they will support the Fuji and Sony.  I would love to try Capture One, but not if I can't also use it with S files...  Nice Shot Albireo!

I use Capture One with my S. You can open the files just fine, the only thing you don’t have are coded profiles but these don’t do anything you can’t do manually. 

[davidmknoble]

6 hours ago, geetee1972 said:

I use Capture One with my S. You can open the files just fine, the only thing you don’t have are coded profiles but these don’t do anything you can’t do manually. 

Did not know that!  Thanks for the information ....  

[Guest]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:44 PM, mgrayson3 said:

My OOF shots dropped from 30% with the S to zero with the Fuji.

30% is a lot though...

Especially if you are shooting people and use shallow depth of field, the number of times that you realize that you just missed focus by a hair after recomposing...

That is the beauty of mirrorless, you can accurately put your focus point anywhere.

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[Jeff S]

24 minutes ago, SlowDriver said:

That is the beauty of mirrorless, you can accurately put your focus point anywhere.

Or one can use Iive view on the S007, albeit with tripod.

Jeff