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Leica M10-P vs. SL2 - please help me to decide!


thetankengine
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Currently I own a M240 and I"m thinking about upgrading it since the M240's performance in the low light is not meeting my demand.  I now face the dilemma of whether getting another M, or should I dive in for the SL2.  I use my camera mainly for travel and landscape photography as well as taking pictures of street cats.  With the Leica SL lenses so expensive, I doubt I'll be able to take advantage of the AF of SL2 anytime soon, i.e I'll most likely get an adaptor to fit my current M lenses onto it, and I thought if I can't use AF straight away, is there a point of getting a SL2?

On the other hand, the SL2 is a newer camera but is less expensive than the M10-P, which is the new M I'm thinking about.

Really cannot make up my mind here, somebody who has used both systems could you please give me some advice.  Please don't say "get both" - if I have that sort of money, I'll get the SL2 with a couple SL lenses.

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The only essential difference (disregarding electronic wizardry like AF, program mode, video, etc.) is rangefinder versus EVF focusing. The best description I know of is that with a rangefinder you snip a particle out of reality itself, with an EVF (or SLR, for that matter) you catch a moment of the projection of reality on your screen.

A purely personal preference, and a decision none of us can take for you.

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It has been a while since I used the M240 but I don’t recall the ISO performance being far behind the M10 or SL1. Maybe 1 stop difference for clean Files. Maybe just keep the M240 and buy a Summilux lens to play around with (if you don’t already have). Just a thought. 
 

if you are definitely going to buy a new body you just need to decide EVF vs OVF and AF vs MF. 

they are two polar opposite cameras  

since money matters, I’d keep the M240 which is fantastic camera. 

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The SL2 costs much less and offers much more (47 Mp and IBIS and AF ...). But if you are a M fan, you would chose the M10. But then why ask this question here.   (It’s a personal choice.)

For the price difference you could buy an AF lens (Sigma 45mm or 24-70 or 1.4/28 or whatever you like best, there is a wide choice). And later buy SL lenses. Even if you use only M lenses, you still get 47 Mp and IBIS.

Edited by caissa
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Not sure what ISOs or lens speeds you’re using, or your output medium (screen or print), but I agree with Jaap that there are many ways to mitigate issues (although he omits IBIS/OIS, which can be game changers).  As others note RF vs EVF  viewing are different animals, subject to personal preference.  If you’re in the US, you might consider renting the SL2 or M10.

Jeff

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My 2 c.  I would keep the M240.  Which is really not far behind the M 10. And purchase the SL2 ... what I have found in 60 days with the SL2  excellent with all your M lenses

*. quicker and easier to focus 

* 47 mega pix. More room to crop

* IBIS  works great. 5 stop advantage 

* physically not that much larger or heavier then the M10

* faster capture rate 10 flips

* future expansion to L mount lenses from 3 manufacturers

you are going to get 3 k for your M240.   And pay 3 k more for the MP 10. You can keep your M and get an SL2. For the same cash out of pocket  

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7 hours ago, Artin said:

My 2 c.  I would keep the M240.  Which is really not far behind the M 10. And purchase the SL2 ... what I have found in 60 days with the SL2  excellent with all your M lenses

*. quicker and easier to focus 

* 47 mega pix. More room to crop

* IBIS  works great. 5 stop advantage 

* physically not that much larger or heavier then the M10

* faster capture rate 10 flips

* future expansion to L mount lenses from 3 manufacturers

you are going to get 3 k for your M240.   And pay 3 k more for the MP 10. You can keep your M and get an SL2. For the same cash out of pocket  

That’s an excellent point, thank you!  I think I’ll keep the M and buy the SL2.  Thanks

 

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Buy a Panasonic Lumix S1.

You will have much better low light performance, in body and lens stabilisation, enough resolution and L mount compatibility for Sigma, Panasonic and Leica lenses. 

With the spare money from not getting an M10 or SL2 you will be able to get one or two good AF lenses to go with it. You can use your M lenses with an adapter easily as the EVF is so good. Liquidate the M gear and you can get a pile of L mount optics with the cash. Plus you get decent video if you need it.

It's a no brainer ...... and unless like some here you have a lot of money to burn the sensible solution.

Running two systems in parallel may be fun but it is expensive, so if you opt for a non-M solution I would go the whole hog. You can always upgrade to an SL2 at a later date if you feel you need 47mpx ..... which frankly is the only benefit of the SL2 over the S1 (and the S1R performs almost identically to the SL2).

All depends how fixated you are on the Red Dot. :rolleyes:

 

Edited by thighslapper
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3 hours ago, thighslapper said:

Buy a Panasonic Lumix S1.

You will have much better low light performance, in body and lens stabilisation, enough resolution and L mount compatibility for Sigma, Panasonic and Leica lenses. 

With the spare money from not getting an M10 or SL2 you will be able to get one or two good AF lenses to go with it. You can use your M lenses with an adapter easily as the EVF is so good. Liquidate the M gear and you can get a pile of L mount optics with the cash. Plus you get decent video if you need it.

It's a no brainer ...... and unless like some here you have a lot of money to burn the sensible solution.

Running two systems in parallel may be fun but it is expensive, so if you opt for a non-M solution I would go the whole hog. You can always upgrade to an SL2 at a later date if you feel you need 47mpx ..... which frankly is the only benefit of the SL2 over the S1 (and the S1R performs almost identically to the SL2).

All depends how fixated you are on the Red Dot. :rolleyes:

 

The Panasonic’s are not optimized for M lenses, his main objective is to use with his M Lenses.  As for the S1R.  It’s a 2000 dollar swing 

I think the quality , the interaction, and the compatibility of the SL2. Is worth the extra 2000 dollars 

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I'm an M240 owner thinking about the SL2 because I like EVF framing, EVF focusing is fine, I love my M lenses, and would appreciate more pixels for cropping. I looked the M10P and SL2 side-by-side last week for about a half hour (only enough time to form an initial impression and try my wide angle lenses). My main takeaways:

- I expected the SL2 to be bigger and heavier, but it is even bigger and heavier than I expected.

- The SL2 viewfinder is excellent for focusing M lenses. I felt no need to magnify focus at any time.

- My 21 elmarit asph and 35 summilux asph both work very well on the camera. This isn't a rigorous test, just a series of shots wide open and stopped down, close up and infinity. Both lenses appear truly excellent on the SL2, more than good enough for me.

- The IBIS really works well, and I like it. It isn't a critical feature for me, though.

- The M10P seemed much easier to focus correctly than my M240. The person in the Leica store suggested it could be due to additional magnification of the viewfinder. I'm not convinced, I may have my RF adjusted to make sure the M240 is getting a fair shake in comparison.

- I liked how the M10P touch screen allows fast positioning of the focus zoom point when using the (much better) EVF.

- The M240 shutter is totally acceptable to me, but is the loudest of the three cameras. The M10P shutter is exceptionally, wonderfully quiet. This isn't a critical feature for me either.

- I prefer the thinner body of the M10 series vs the M240. Again, not critical.

I'm mostly motivated by size, weight, lenses, cost, and joy of use. I do really like the SL2 feature set, and am convinced that my M lenses would work well with it, but fear that it is too big and heavy for me. Some mental realignment would be required before I would get an SL or SL2. If size and weight is less critical to you, I expect you'd love the camera. It is beautiful.

If the RF magnification difference is what makes focusing work better for me, I'd consider moving from M240 to some M10 version.

Edited by xrogers
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I kept the M240 and bought the SL2. 

I actually think it is not that big with M lenses and works beautifully. It also balances really well with the two larger M lenses I have, the Noctilux f1 and the 90mm APO. 

For me the rangefinders will never be able to focus the f1, f1.4 s in very low light. With the SL2 it’s easy. 

The SL2 is an intuitive camera, you set the menu options once and you almost never need to go back into the menu. 

For me the M240 (now with the EVF locked in a cupboard) and the SL2 are absolutely complimentary. I advise you not to sell the M240 unless you desperately need to. 

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5 hours ago, thetankengine said:

That’s an excellent point, thank you!  I think I’ll keep the M and buy the SL2.  Thanks

 

Fine if the SL2 gives you the performance and pleasure you require, and as much or more than the M10. Personally I would still demo or rent the options. Cost is not the only distinction.

Jeff

 

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Assuming gas is not the issue, if you're not thinking of moving over for the added features.. more MPx/AF/L-Summicrons/Availability of longer and wider focal lengths/etc... I'd be inclined to hold off for a bit to see if the MM rumors are true, and if so, what they might portend for the next gen M.  IMO, M lenses still work best on an M.  I personally don't see the SL as an M replacement, rather a compliment with a different set of a strengths that can, on occasion, take advantage of my existing M optics. 

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I am sorry to say but, I have used M camera's for 38 years now M5 M3 M6 M9 M240 ... And I can say with out a doubt I find M lenses on the SL2 easier to use. even though rangefinders are a pleasure but the SL2 is easier. 

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Thetankengine,  I use the Leica M, S and SL systems for my business.  I agree with the recommendations offered in Post #16 and #18.  If you are near a Leica Store or boutique, they still have the option to test drive the SL system and in your case M lenses for a day or so.  You might take advantage of test drive and see what works best for you.  r/ Mark

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