Lenses like the 75 Summarit 2.4?

[nameBrandon]

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The 75 Summarit-M 2.4 is my only Leica lens. I also have the CV Nokton 40 1.2 and the CV 21 1.8 ASPH. I'm looking to potentially replace the 40 1.2 with a 35 and 50 combo. Probably will start with the 50 as it's usually the cheaper option.

I find myself coming back to the images shot with my 75 2.4 as there is something about them I can't quite place.. The Nokton looks too perfect at times, nothing super special about it other than how sharp and contrasty it is. The 75 on the other hand has a bit of character, something about the images intriuige me a bit more.

I'm curious for those well versed in the Leica M lens lineup, is there anything about the design of that 75 2.4 that is reflected in Leica's other lenses in the 35/50 ranges? If I liked the 75. 2.4 so much, would you recommend anything else? 

One other option I"m considering just due to cost (or lack thereof) is the ZM C-Sonnar 50 1.5.. I'd love to stick with Leica lenses exclusively but alas, we run into that age old problem of money..

Thanks in advance!

[a.noctilux]

Hello Brandon,

I'm glad that you appreciate the Summarit-M 75mm.

I use other 75mm (Summilux-M 75 and my wife's Apo-Summicron-M 75 ) for long and discovered the Summarit-M lens line not long ago.

First was the 2.5/50mm found very cheap (to see if ...) then I added the 2.5/35mm and lastly the 2.5/75mm.

Easy handling, light/compact, short focus throw, etc.

Even if I have other lenses, they are not as fine in use and those lovely results are bonus.

They have something special in pictures "blending of modern and classic" no lens can give.

👍

My only thinking is to add to your 75mm an Summarit-M 2.4/35mm or even why not the older (not lesser if not the E39 filter size if you use filter) 2.5/35mm.

And after that if you still like the lenses, add the 50mm to make a light trio Summarit-M 35/50/75 👌.

 

Before the Summarit-M 35mm, I use(d) these 35mm (and some others), in this link

Edited January 12, 2020 by a.noctilux

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[Rob L]

Many on this forum love the 2.5 35 & 50 Summarits. I much prefer the newer 2.4 for their ergonomics. The 2.5s have a retro design similar to the 60s Summicron and Summaron 35s with a tiny aperture ring. They also have a rather large hood. The newer ones have a very nice wide aperture ring and a very compact hood with slip on caps. I have the 2.4 35 & 50, as well as a vII Elmarit 28 ASPH and they all handle exactly the same and are the same size and weight.

[LeicaR10]

nameBrandon,   I have owned all the lenses of both the 2.5 and 2.4 versions of the Summarit M line.  As you discovered the 75mm 2.4 has a interesting way of rendering.  Based on my decades of owning the M, R, S and SL systems for my business, I found nearly all the Leica lenses are superb.  Some M lenses render in a unique way due to the optical design and "flaws". You will find many photographers in the forum offering well intentioned advice to include myself.  I would suggest you look at your photographs taken with the other lenses and based on your genre of photography determine what focal length you need next.  Then look at the different M lenses for that focal length be it Summarit, Summicron or Summilux and go to a Leica dealer and try that focal length out.  Most Leica Stores or boutiques will be more than happy to let you shoot the lenses and help you find what is best for you. Then you make the decision based on how you feel and think the lens renders.  I highly recommend you take time making YOUR decision.  Last, remember it is the content of the photograph that matters most, not the brand, make, type of lens or camera...as you delve into photography, it gets down to how you create and capture the moment in time with both camera and lens being a tool that only renders what you envisioned.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Edited January 12, 2020 by LeicaR10

[lct]

6 hours ago, nameBrandon said:

[...] I'm curious for those well versed in the Leica M lens lineup, is there anything about the design of that 75 2.4 that is reflected in Leica's other lenses in the 35/50 ranges? [...] One other option I"m considering just due to cost (or lack thereof) is the ZM C-Sonnar 50 1.5.. [...]

The ZM 50/1.5 is a great lens but suffers from focus shift on rangefinders. Otherwise i have no experience with the Summarit 75/2.4 but i have the similar Summarit 75/2.5 and it matches very well my Summarit 50/2.5 and 35/2.5. I like both but prefer the 50/2.5 which has less CA and is sharper at edges and corners than the 35/2.5. Matter of tastes anyway so better try those lenses in person if you can.

[nameBrandon]

27 minutes ago, lct said:

The ZM 50/1.5 is a great lens but suffers from focus shift on rangefinders. Otherwise i have no experience with the Summarit 75/2.4 but i have the similar Summarit 75/2.5 and it matches very well my Summarit 50/2.5 and 35/2.5. I like both but prefer the 50/2.5 which has less CA and is sharper at edges and corners than the 35/2.5. Matter of tastes anyway so better try those lenses in person if you can.

Thank you! That's one of the great thing about the digital bodies with focus peaking, makes focus shift much less of an issue!

I seem to struggle with this every time which is how I end up with lenses like the CV's.. but it looks like given recent prices in the classifieds,  I could pick up a Zeiss Biogon 35 2.8 and the Zeiss C-Sonnar 50 1.5 for the price of a second-hand Summarit 50 2.5. 😕  

[lct]

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15 minutes ago, nameBrandon said:

[...] I could pick up a Zeiss Biogon 35 2.8 and the Zeiss C-Sonnar 50 1.5 for the price of a second-hand Summarit 50 2.5.  

Who cares about money? . The ZM 35/2.8 is one of the very best 35mm lenses irrespective of price. Matches well my Summarit 75/2.5 in that both lenses are sharp at all apertures and have little flare, little CA and smooth bokeh. The ZM is a bit more contrasty though but it is not a problem if you shoot raw.  

[nameBrandon]

30 minutes ago, lct said:

Who cares about money? . The ZM 35/2.8 is one of the very best 35mm lenses irrespective of price. Matches well my Summarit 75/2.5 in that both lenses are sharp at all apertures and have little flare, little CA and smooth bokeh. The ZM is a bit more contrasty though but it is not a problem if you shoot raw.  

Hah.. That is reassuring!

I am a little afraid of making another mistake. When I first built out my Leica kit I had approached it similar to my Sony mirrorless setup that I have, modern lenses, sharp as possible with as much contrast.. That is why I picked up the CV 28 ASPH and 40 1.2 to start with, very sharp, really good contrast. 

I had no idea that I would enjoy that... je ne sais quoi.. that I see with the Summarit 75. I am a bit concerned that perhaps choosing the Zeiss lenses based on cost would put me in the same situation, that I would fall back wishing I had just gone with the more expensive Summarit lenses instead.

The more I read about the Biogon 35 and the Sonnar-C 50 the more I am seeing the conversations center around 'character' rather than sharpness/contrast, so that is encouraging. Maybe it's time to start reviewing images from both the ZM's and the Summarit's and see what I think. 

 

[james.liam]

To preclude wasted money, why don't you rent the lenses of interest for a few days. I'm sure there are such places in Chicago; if not, www.lensrentals.com is a good source in the US.

If the look of the Summarits appeal to you, do consider the 35/2.4. Unlike the Summicron ASPH, it has no appreciable focus shift and should deliver what appeals to you in the 75. Probably superior to the older Summicron ASPH by many critical metrics. The 50 Sonnar is a specialty lens and has serious focus shift you have to learn. If by Biogon 35 you mean the ƒ/2,8, it is one of the finest 35's out there in M mount, save for the ZM 1,4/35. Punchy colors, high contrast and high resolution. The CV 2/35 is likewise a 1st rate optic, arguably the equal of the 35 Summicron ASPH.

Edited January 13, 2020 by james.liam

[lct]

The ZM 35/2.8 is a sharp lens with high contrast too. Here on the M240. For softer results, a pre-asph Summicron could do it but it will be more expensive unless the 40mm focal length doesn't bother you. The Summicron 40/2 or the excellent albeit less expensive M-Rokkor 40/2 for Minolta CLE could give you this "je ne sais quoi" you're after with a bit of luck. Better try those lenses in person though as there are no 40mm frame lines in Leica rangefinders as you know.

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[james.liam]

2 minutes ago, lct said:

The Summicron 40/2 or the excellent albeit less expensive M-Rokkor 40/2 for Minolta CLE could give you this "je ne sais quoi" you're after with a bit of luck. Better try those lenses in person though as there are no 40mm frame lines in Leica rangefinders as you know.

The OP already has a CV 1,2/40.

[lct]

Yes but it was a mistake he says...

[james.liam]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

Yes but it was a mistake he says...

...one he wishes to amend with a 50 & 35. 

[lct]

1 minute ago, james.liam said:

...one he wishes to amend with a 50 & 35. 

... which are more expensive than a 40. If he can live with the lack of 40mm frame lines this could be a good solution. I mean for the OP as i don't like 40mm lenses on digital Ms personally. They make an almost perfect match with the 35mm frame lines of the Epson RD1 though.

[Photon42]

17 hours ago, nameBrandon said:

The 75 Summarit-M 2.4 is my only Leica lens. I also have the CV Nokton 40 1.2 and the CV 21 1.8 ASPH. I'm looking to potentially replace the 40 1.2 with a 35 and 50 combo. Probably will start with the 50 as it's usually the cheaper option.

In terms of similar look, the 2.4/35 Summarit is certainly a good option. I find 2.4 already too "slow", so maybe you want to look into a non-ASPH Summicron or eventually the Biogon 2/35. The latter is not exactly small, but has excellent flare resistance and does not need a hood (just like your 75 Summarit  ....). Now, for 50, it gets more difficult. I would actually suggest to maybe try the Sonnar. Yes, it takes time to handle the focus shift, but then it definitely gives you something special and different in terms of lens "drawing". Even if you later add, say, a Summicron, you can still keep the Sonnar for its different character.

 

[a.noctilux]

Brandon,

If you are after "je ne sais quoi" (you "see" in the Summarit-M 75mm ), you can be searching for a while this " same thing" in other focal lengths.

For me searching is with pleasure and not ending in this huge Leica (or not) world.

I just see this searching as continuous renew to discover the world around us and interpreting with the tools "to learn how to use them".

Reading (images from web or books)  can help but it will never replace direct experiences.

I'm glad that I love the 75mm field since decades and thanks to my wife who "sees the world" this way.

Out of topic, just a view of Kodachrome with Summilux-M 75mm which I do use sometimes these days (replacing with the Summarit-M now)

 

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Edited January 13, 2020 by a.noctilux

[m410]

Brandon,

You have an excellent start with your 75 Summarit-M 2.4.  I would find value in continuing the Summarit line with the 35mm F2.4 as it has the same fit, feel, filters and optical performance.  Then with time add a more radical wide-angle, I like the 21mm SEM.  Then go with a 135mm which some may shy away from but I enjoy using as it is gives your outfit a bit more "reach" when you need it.  Over the years, Leica has made many excellent 135mm lenses including their current offering.  I have a F4 Tele-Elmar version and it does a fine job.   Setup with 21mm, 35mm, 75mm and 135mm, you should be able to handle most situations.  Added flexibility for those situations such as long distance travel where you may want less weight to hall around take the 35mm+75mm. 

Lens speed:  I feel that with modern digital cameras, f2.4 is very doable.  I enjoy small lenses more than fast lenses when it comes to traveling.  If you come to the conclusion that you absolutely need more low light performance you could add a 50mm f1.4 or replace the 35mm 2.4 with a 35mm Summilux.  Both would fit into the outfit you are starting.

Good luck with your choices.

Edited January 15, 2020 by m410

[otto.f]

I find the distance between a 75 and a 50 in practice often negligible. The difference between a 50 and a 35 is significant. And you are used to a 40 already, which is closer to a 35.