Should I buy a copy of the Summicron-S 100mm?

[Photon42]

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6 hours ago, geetee1972 said:

Well that was easy.

Despite the lack of paperwork, a quick call to Leica UK has established that the Summicron-S lens I have was originally sold via Leica Japan in 2015 and in 2017 it had the AF motor replaced, also via Lecia Japan. It's a well travelled lens but the AF motor issue has been addressed so any noise I hear is what it was designed to do.

I think this makes it a very cheap copy of the lens. Yes it has the hood from a wide angle lens (it's the same as the 45mm and wider lenses) and there's no box but it was only £3099.

Good - as long as it is sharp enough 😎

[geetee1972]

On 1/12/2020 at 6:01 PM, Sarnian said:

Don't factor on getting too much for the adapter as they don't appear to be selling on ebay at the moment. I have one listed at a mere £360 and it isn't selling - that's less than some of the 'dumb' adapters!

P.S. http://www.tearsinrain.co.uk <-- One of my favourite quotes from Bladerunner! 

Just FYI,  I sold mine to MPB.com who bought it off me for £356. I know that what you have your's listed as now but with MPB.com they give you the money up front, i.e. they aren't offering a commission sale plus you net that amount rather than then have to pay fees.

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[Sarnian]

7 minutes ago, geetee1972 said:

Just FYI,  I sold mine to MPB.com who bought it off me for £356.

A fair price in the current market. Did yours have both caps on it?

On eBay I wait until I get a £1 Max Seller Fees offer (although Paypal still takes its commission). I've bought from MPB before and they've been good. I'll investigate that avenue. 

Thanks

 

[geetee1972]

52 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

A fair price in the current market. Did yours have both caps on it?

On eBay I wait until I get a £1 Max Seller Fees offer (although Paypal still takes its commission). I've bought from MPB before and they've been good. I'll investigate that avenue. 

Thanks

 

No but then it also didn't come with the caps. I think I paid £250 from the Leica UK store, which was cheap except as it turned out I didn't need it!

[Viv]

Don't buy a copy. Buy an original.

[dritz]

The 100-S is special.  I use it as a manual focus lens as it's sloooooooooow and hunts in autofocus.  It's easier to focus than the 120 because the focus throw is shorter, weighs less and is easier to physically handle.  But you buy it because of the images -- even close focus is gorgeous.

I have a rental S1R on its way to see how the 100-S works with that body (as well as my M and R lenses). I must say, my experiences with the S bodies leave me looking for an alternative where I can get a 4 year extended warranty. My last repair on my (former) S007 cost more than an SL2 with a 4 year extended warranty.  At some point I'll sell all my S lenses EXCEPT the 100-S which I'll use on an L body.

Regards,

Dean

 

[setuporg]

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8 hours ago, dritz said:

The 100-S is special.  I use it as a manual focus lens as it's sloooooooooow and hunts in autofocus.  It's easier to focus than the 120 because the focus throw is shorter, weighs less and is easier to physically handle.  But you buy it because of the images -- even close focus is gorgeous.

I have a rental S1R on its way to see how the 100-S works with that body (as well as my M and R lenses). I must say, my experiences with the S bodies leave me looking for an alternative where I can get a 4 year extended warranty. My last repair on my (former) S007 cost more than an SL2 with a 4 year extended warranty.  At some point I'll sell all my S lenses EXCEPT the 100-S which I'll use on an L body.

 

Dean -- I've just filmed my daughters' piano recital with SL2 and S100, absolutely amazing cinema quality.  It also focuses photos tack sharp.

I can walk around with the SL2 and the S100.  It's a weird alternative to the SL 90 APO Cron I guess.

At the same time, the same S100 fails to do AF on its own S007 missing the eyes slightly at a far distance, showing some front focus.  This is what @Milan_S and @ZHNL reported -- now I see what they meant.  It's a pity I've not done my research before I picked it up at my dealer.

Can a lens for S be calibrated against front/back focus?  Do you have to make sure your body is able to AF the lens?  What's the resolution -- going through the lens copies?

Edited January 21, 2020 by setuporg

[Photon42]

2 hours ago, setuporg said:

 

Can a lens for S be calibrated against front/back focus?  Do you have to make sure your body is able to AF the lens?  What's the resolution -- going through the lens copies?

Honestly I am not sure it would make sense. My take is that the S uses a box of a certain size and within this box it focuses at the item with closest distance. In your case that may well be the lashes, thus the eye ball getting slightly out of focus. You probably need to focus manually to solve the issue.

[ZHNL]

7 hours ago, Photon42 said:

Honestly I am not sure it would make sense. My take is that the S uses a box of a certain size and within this box it focuses at the item with closest distance. In your case that may well be the lashes, thus the eye ball getting slightly out of focus. You probably need to focus manually to solve the issue.

It is very easy to verify. I think we should give setuporg credit given this is not a rocket science. 

I think what Milan_S reported was different than I. He said it is inconsistent. I don’t know if he did controlled test. I said it was consistent front focus on multiple body I tried. I use well defined focus target. Including Setuporg, I have seen so many reports on the 100cron focus issues. It is very real. i have a feeling. Greg’s newly acquired cron has the same issue. It has nothing to do with the focus motor. 

on Sl2 it is fine, it uses CDAF.

and given the fact my S007 now works with this lens, I think it is simply for the AF tech and lens tolerance don’t work with f2 glasses. Mine was within certain tolerance finally. 

Edited January 21, 2020 by ZHNL

[ZHNL]

11 hours ago, setuporg said:

Dean -- I've just filmed my daughters' piano recital with SL2 and S100, absolutely amazing cinema quality.  It also focuses photos tack sharp.

I can walk around with the SL2 and the S100.  It's a weird alternative to the SL 90 APO Cron I guess.

At the same time, the same S100 fails to do AF on its own S007 missing the eyes slightly at a far distance, showing some front focus.  This is what @Milan_S and @ZHNL reported -- now I see what they meant.  It's a pity I've not done my research before I picked it up at my dealer.

Can a lens for S be calibrated against front/back focus?  Do you have to make sure your body is able to AF the lens?  What's the resolution -- going through the lens copies?

Using S glass for FF video is really a big plus given its big image circle. No stressed corner any more. Much Relaxed rendering. Plus it has real focus ring. 

[setuporg]

Here's five photos from the recital.  The first is OVF AF with S100.  The second is Live View manual focus with magnification with S100.  The third is again OVF AF with S100, and the fourth is OVF AF with S120.  The fifth is SL2 with the same S100, EVF AF (field on the face).  All handheld from the same seat.

I was placing the center on the eyes in each case.  It seems it's front-focusing on OVS AF S100, doesn't it?

https://adobe.ly/36i0cRk

 

Edited January 21, 2020 by setuporg

[ZHNL]

8 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Here's five photos from the recital.  The first is OVF AF with S100.  The second is Live View manual focus with magnification with S100.  The third is again OVF AF with S100, and the fourth is OVF AF with S120.  The fifth is SL2 with the same S100, EVF AF (filed on the face).  All handheld from the same seat.

I was placing the center on the eyes in each case.  It seems it's front-focusing on OVS AF S100, does it?

https://adobe.ly/36i0cRk

 

Yes, this is what I saw before on mine. The errors usually are a lot more than eye lashes to eye ball errors. (depend on distance also)

[setuporg]

So at least it seems I can manually focus S100 in Live View.

I wonder if it's possible at all to focus it via OVF wide open?  The problem with such a narrow depth of field is that OVF looks OK but the zooming in shows it's soft where you wanted.

[setuporg]

Also looks like S120 is so much better on the S.  The S100 only makes sense as an SL2 lens now.:)

[ZHNL]

49 minutes ago, setuporg said:

So at least it seems I can manually focus S100 in Live View.

I wonder if it's possible at all to focus it via OVF wide open?  The problem with such a narrow depth of field is that OVF looks OK but the zooming in shows it's soft where you wanted.

You dont need wonder:) My combo works as good as 120 now. So, yes, they can work.  

[setuporg]

5 minutes ago, ZHNL said:

You dont need wonder:) My combo works as good as 120 now. So, yes, they can work.  

Do you mean S100 works well and tack sharp with the OVF focusing?  Does it do AF sharp as well?

[ZHNL]

20 minutes ago, setuporg said:

Do you mean S100 works well and tack sharp with the OVF focusing?  Does it do AF sharp as well?

That is what I mean. That is also the reason I mentioned before: S need AF fine turn feature. Which will be perfect for case like this. 

though, I have to say, the suggestion didn't get any welcome in S forum before as people seem buy the argument that every S glass get sync in factory. 

Let's be clear, it work as good as 24,35,70,120 I have which would still miss focus(like mentioned with huge AF spot covered and tricky target) but with well defined target under controlled test: It is repeatable  with good accuracy. that is all I am asking for. I don't buy S for fancy AF anyway. 

[geetee1972]

Here are my first shots with the 100mm Summicron. These are the best shots from a much wider selection and in one or two instances the lens did miss AF but only very marginally and it could just as easily been user error.

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43Jan 18 2020 by Greg Turner, on Flickr

Untitled - The Shadow by Greg Turner, on Flickr

 

[setuporg]

So I tried to focus manually with the OVF.  And it's just not possible at 2 meters away!  I tried to MF with OVF and front-focus, focus, and back-focus.  The middle is the sharpest but still soft at highest magnification in the camera.  The Live View focus, however, is sharp.

So indeed I wonder whether OVF focusing of the S100 is just inherently not possible wide-open, unless you're some kind of a sharp-eyed Pocahontas.

Or is this something where split screens could come handy?

For now I see that I have to use Live View with the S100 to save myself from aggravation zooming in later.

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[setuporg]

@geetee1972, excellent portraits, Greg!  I think they are from close enough -- I just tried the same with my wife playing piano and focusing cross-hair on the eyes from 1-2 meters in fact was sharp in all setups, with BBF AF, manual focus via OVF, and live view manual focus.

So it might not be my copy but rather the way one should focus -- close enough, everything could work, but at a distance, Live View MF seems the only reliable way.

Edited January 21, 2020 by setuporg