Recommendations for printer

[Deckard]

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Thanks a lot to all of you for your help, guys!

I may have more questions as I proceed into this new (essential!) aspect of my photography 😁

 

[Deckard]

Ok, I got a few more questions. I appreciate that there is a lot here, so maybe if anybody has a link to any website with comprehensive info on the printing workflow , I would appreciate

(By the way, I went for and EPSON SC-P800)

 

MONITOR

I currently work on a 2012 MacBook Air. The monitor is 15.4 inches 2880 x 1800. I feel very happy with it, so the question is: would this be enough to get good prints (I hope so) or do I really need a better monitor? (I hope not, at least not for the immediate future)

This brings to the following question:

 

MONITOR CALIBRATION

At the moment when I look at the same picture on my editing sw (Exposure X5), on Mac finder or on my Huawei mobile, I get three slightly different images, which is problem I have kept ignoring, but it's time to get it sorted.

The question is: regardless of whether I am printing or not, do I need a separate monitor calibration tool/sw (something like these https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Color-Management-Hardware/ci/12000/N/4220238354 ) to be used even before worrying about the communication with the printer? 

 

PRINTER CALIBRATION

Once the monitor is calibred, how do I make sure that I will print exactly the same image? By what I am reading , it seems to me that I can achieve it through the following alternatives:

- the printer driver (as I said , I will be using and Epson SC-P800)

- a software like ImagePrint (as @Jeff Smentioned), hopefully a cheaper one?

- an ICC profiling service, like those provided by Fotospeed (as @Ouroboros Mentioned) ?

Am I understanding it correctly?

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Jeff S]

Short answers...you won’t be able to effectively calibrate your laptop as you would a better monitor. Plus, it’s very small for editing purposes. I use an older desktop Mac Pro with a separate 24 inch NEC monitor with built in calibration software. Eizo makes some of the best monitors, but  they are very expensive.  NEC’s are excellent, too, but more reasonably priced. There are others, but I’m not up to date.  Apparently Sean Reid just wrote about a low price alternative (I no longer subscribe to his site.)

The other topic refers to soft-proofing capability; WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).  LR has this option in its print module, but I prefer IP’s integration, which is full time soft proof mode, and more effective.  But, yes, expensive.  One can print without soft proofing, but then a lot of paper can be wasted with trial and error.

Last, good profiles also can optimize print results and reduce paper waste.This can be subtle, and depends on your level of scrutiny... and budget. I’ve already mentioned IP. One additional benefit is that IP provides profiles for different lighting conditions. (Just because your print looks like your screen view in your office, doesn’t mean that it will look the same under different display lighting conditions.)  Many choices are available, including making your own custom profiles, but that would cost more than IP just based on the gear required, let alone the time and effort.

It all depends on your preferences, standards, budget, etc.  No different than choosing your camera brand.  I personally find that the back end of the work flow provides more bang for the buck than the front end, so I don’t skimp.  But it’s also true that expensive gear (camera, print gear or other) doesn’t guarantee great results. Photography isn’t plug and play, and much depends on the tools between the ears... a good eye and good judgment. But other good tools can sometimes help.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

LR has this option in its print module...

Meant to say in the Develop module.

Jeff

[Ouroboros]

3 hours ago, Deckard said:

Ok, I got a few more questions. I appreciate that there is a lot here, so maybe if anybody has a link to any website with comprehensive info on the printing workflow , I would appreciate

(By the way, I went for and EPSON SC-P800)

 

MONITOR

I currently work on a 2012 MacBook Air. The monitor is 15.4 inches 2880 x 1800. I feel very happy with it, so the question is: would this be enough to get good prints (I hope so) or do I really need a better monitor? (I hope not, at least not for the immediate future)

This brings to the following question:

 

MONITOR CALIBRATION

At the moment when I look at the same picture on my editing sw (Exposure X5), on Mac finder or on my Huawei mobile, I get three slightly different images, which is problem I have kept ignoring, but it's time to get it sorted.

The question is: regardless of whether I am printing or not, do I need a separate monitor calibration tool/sw (something like these https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Color-Management-Hardware/ci/12000/N/4220238354 ) to be used even before worrying about the communication with the printer? 

 

PRINTER CALIBRATION

Once the monitor is calibred, how do I make sure that I will print exactly the same image? By what I am reading , it seems to me that I can achieve it through the following alternatives:

- the printer driver (as I said , I will be using and Epson SC-P800)

- a software like ImagePrint (as @Jeff Smentioned), hopefully a cheaper one?

- an ICC profiling service, like those provided by Fotospeed (as @Ouroboros Mentioned) ?

Am I understanding it correctly?

Many thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

It depends on your aims, what you intend to do with your prints, your output volume and how much money you are prepared to throw at hardware and software.    

Just a thought: now that you have ordered a P800, it might be prudent to stick with Epson inks and papers to protect your warranty whilst you find your feet rather than  go straight into CIS or refillable cartridges from a third party supplier such as Fotospeed or Marrutt, which will likely void your warranty if you subsequently have problems with the printer.

  Personally, from long experience I would always buy the printer together with  CIS or refillables from the same ink system supplier, where the supplier will provide their own warranty.  Buying a new printer from one source may well be a false economy if you load it with third party inks from another source and run into problems from the outset.  

That said, you can always consider using third party inks when your printer warranty expires.

 

[Jeff S]

Indeed, stick with Epson inks, maintain warranty, and minimize new learning variables (as well as potential quality/longevity issues depending on supplier), especially as a newbie.  Plus, even if ink costs translate to a dollar or so a print, this is peanuts in terms of print prices, assuming one is successful.  For me, even without print sales, digital equipment and supplies still cost me less than former film and darkroom expenses, not including labor savings. Hobbies/businesses have costs... as any Leica user surely knows.

Jeff

[Deckard]

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Thanks, guys

Actually, after @Ouroboros last comment and before @Jeff S posted his last one, I have decided to cancel the initial order and I have reordered everything with Fotospeed, including their ink system (which is covered by their warranty)! I hope it won't be a mistake, but that's part of the learning curve! 

[Jeff S]

But will the warranty cover any other machine issues... head, feed mechanism, etc?  

Did you get the $300 rebate?

Jeff

[Ouroboros]

12 minutes ago, Deckard said:

Thanks, guys

Actually, after @Ouroboros last comment and before @Jeff S posted his last one, I have decided to cancel the initial order and I have reordered everything with Fotospeed, including their ink system (which is covered by their warranty)! I hope it won't be a mistake, but that's part of the learning curve! 

Good choice, Fotospeed products are second to none and are a great company to deal with.  

To set your mind at rest, I once ordered a P-600 from Fotospeed which suddenly died after a week or so.  Fotospeed arranged for a new replacement P-600 to be delivered direct to me from Epson and sent a set of complimentary 4K inks, even though I had used very little ink in the first printer. 

[Jeff S]

In the US, I would always stick with Jon Cone’s products... Piezography for b/w or Cone Color.  He’s the best I know.  

Jeff

[Deckard]

10 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

But will the warranty cover any other machine issues... head, feed mechanism, etc?  

Did you get the $300 rebate?

Jeff

It should cover everything

No, no rebate in UK

 

 

[Jeff S]

10 minutes ago, Deckard said:

 

No, no rebate in UK

 

 

Even directly from Epson at times?

If not, shame.  Between rebate and dealer discounts, I saved $450 on my P800... that pays for a lot of Epson ink. 

Jeff

Edited April 10, 2020 by Jeff S

[250swb]

Myself and a friend had terrible experiences with the Epson 3800 where each failed with the same ink clogging problem. I went through three machines under warranty, one of them failing as the technician tried to get ink going through it on installation. When it worked it was a very good printer, but after that I swore to never again buy Epson crap. So the alternative was a Canon Pro-10 and aside from superb print quality it just works, leave it a month and it still works.

Edited April 11, 2020 by 250swb

[Ouroboros]

Ah, the old Epson vs Canon debate again.  
 I have had print head issues with clogging and air locks  with several Epson printers in the past.  That was until I switched to Fotospeed ink. 
Following a house move last year, my printers were dormant for over two months  When I resumed printing again, one was fine, the other had an air lock in the LLB line which cleared itself within 48 hours by gravity after I removed the plug from the refillable cartridge. 
The best way to avoid issues is to use them regularly. 

[Deckard]

4 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Ah, the old Epson vs Canon debate again.  
 I have had print head issues with clogging and air locks  with several Epson printers in the past.  That was until I switched to Fotospeed ink. 
Following a house move last year, my printers were dormant for over two months  When I resumed printing again, one was fine, the other had an air lock in the LLB line which cleared itself within 48 hours by gravity after I removed the plug from the refillable cartridge. 
The best way to avoid issues is to use them regularly. 

Just to understand, what would you consider a regular use? A print every couple of days on average? Or do you need more than one print to get it running properly?

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Another looking for printer advice. I have a Canon IPF 5000 monster, excellent printer until the heads went out about 5 years ago, have new heads but is it worth the $800 for inks. The printer is great in that it could take roll paper, currently I don't see any 17 inch printers that do. Should I repair this or dispose of it, all 120 lbs of it. If I go that route are there any 17 inch printers that take roll paper?

[Jeff S]

I used an Epson 3800 with Epson inks for 7 years without issues, then donated it to a local college photo program and, when I checked a year later, it was still functioning. The P800 that I replaced it with, using Epson inks, has been problem free, even if it goes several weeks without use. 

The Epson 4900 was a dud (I didn’t own, but widely discussed) with significant head clogging, and it was eventually replaced with a much more reliable machine.  No different than Leica, for those unlucky enough to buy an M8 with a failed screen or an M9 with a corroded sensor.  S**t happens with certain parts. Epson and Canon now produce fine machines... for the most part.  They want them to last long enough for you to keep buying the inks, where all the profits are.  Some third party ink systems are excellent, some not.  Choices and, sometimes, trade offs. Just like most any product.

Jeff

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jeff S

[Ouroboros]

5 hours ago, tommonego@gmail.com said:

.... are there any 17 inch printers that take roll paper?

The Epson P600 (A3+) comes with a roll adapter. 

[Ouroboros]

6 hours ago, Deckard said:

Just to understand, what would you consider a regular use? A print every couple of days on average? Or do you need more than one print to get it running properly?

When you're up and running you'll probably want to begin printing your archive as well as current work which will keep your printer busy enough.  You'll find your own level with regard to your output, but don't let the printer sit idle for  prolonged periods even if you only run a nozzle check or print a calibration target or documents etc from time to time.

Assuming there are no blockages, airlocks or other issues, your printer will be ready to print whenever you turn it on. You don't need to run a 'test print' first', if that is what you are asking, but if you haven't printed anything for several days it is worth running a nozzle check first to avoid waste.

Take it slowly, you will make mistakes and you will waste paper and ink in the initial stages.  As with any process, methodical practice will help you get to grips with your workflow.

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[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros said:

The Epson P600 (A3+) comes with a roll adapter. 

It’s an accessory option in the US.  The P800 also has a roll paper option, and it’s a much more robust one. I haven’t checked the specs on the respective P700 and P900 replacement models.

Jeff

Edited April 11, 2020 by Jeff S