SL2 plus Sigma 28/1.4 Art

[NRKstudio]

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Anyone try out this combo yet?  Until the 28 Cron comes out, the 28 Art could be one of the best new-dad, environmental portraiture, candid shooter, at home, kids playing lens for the system.  It was stunning for the A7r4.  Mine is still on pre-order, so I’m wondering if anyone here has been able to try it out for L mount? I saw it briefly in stock at BH.  
 

 

[NRKstudio]

When I had it on E mount it was a very strong performer.  One big difference between it and the 35/1.2 Sigma is that the 28 Art has a clutch override manual focus ring which is very useful (no switch needed, whenever the ring turns it goes into MF), and it has a zone focus scale (albeit a small one).  

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[SrMi]

2 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

When I had it on E mount it was a very strong performer.  One big difference between it and the 35/1.2 Sigma is that the 28 Art has a clutch override manual focus ring which is very useful (no switch needed, whenever the ring turns it goes into MF), and it has a zone focus scale (albeit a small one).  

Are you sure about the clutch? The images on Sigma's page show an AF/MF switch on the lens. No clutch is good news for SL2 owners.

[NRKstudio]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:32 AM, SrMi said:

Are you sure about the clutch? The images on Sigma's page show an AF/MF switch on the lens. No clutch is good news for SL2 owners.

The switch is indeed present.  But if you turn the focus ring it’ll manually focus.  even when you half press the shutter in AF-C, (assuming no BBF) turning the ring will physically  fight against the camera’s electronic input of changing focus distance.  So I assume it’s a clutch involved. 

[SrMi]

7 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

The switch is indeed present.  But if you turn the focus ring it’ll manually focus.  even when you half press the shutter in AF-C, (assuming no BBF) turning the ring will physically  fight against the camera’s electronic input of changing focus distance.  So I assume it’s a clutch involved. 

AFAIK, that behavior is the same on all L-mount lenses, as they all have a focus-by-wire (no physical connection): in AF mode, while half-pressing the shutter button, you can turn the focusing ring to adjust the focus manually.

An AF/MF clutch is when you can pull the focusing ring towards you and thus disable AF. When you pull the clutch towards you, typically, a distance scale is exposed on the lens. See Panasonic's or Olympus' documentation for a description of the focus clutch mechanism.

[NRKstudio]

I see then it’s not a clutch.  But not all L mount lenses will allow a manual focus ring to physically torque against the internal focus motors attempts at continuous auto focus adjustments.  So, it may be focus by wire, but it allows anytime adjustment of manual focus even when the camera is in any focus mode, iAF, AFC or AFS (at least it was on the A7r4, in E mount and EF mount with the Sigma Mc11).  

[SrMi]

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19 minutes ago, NRKstudio said:

I see then it’s not a clutch.  But not all L mount lenses will allow a manual focus ring to physically torque against the internal focus motors attempts at continuous auto focus adjustments.  So, it may be focus by wire, but it allows anytime adjustment of manual focus even when the camera is in any focus mode, iAF, AFC or AFS (at least it was on the A7r4, in E mount and EF mount with the Sigma Mc11).  

There is no torque against the internal focus motors in lenses with focus-by-wire: moving the focusing ring sends commands to the camera's computer to move focusing elements in the lens. 

I have several Leica's L-mount lenses, and all behave the same way. Which L-mount lenses do not allow manual focus override while in AF?

[NRKstudio]

None of my other L mount lenses allow instant Manual focus override.  I have to either set the SL2 to MF, or when in AF modes, half press the shutter first then turn the focus ring in order to use manual focus.  Otherwise, I have to use the on-lens AF/MF switch on my Sigma lenses in order to access MF when I’m in any of the AF modes.  Not with the 28 Art.  Turn the ring in any mode at any time to use manual focus, using the switch is not necessary.  
yes the torque is generated from electronic motors instead of a helicoid.  Try the Sigma 28 to get an idea of the method I’m referring to.  On the A7r4 and A7r3: the operation of the focus ring conflicted with the AF-c operation of the focus motor, thus half pressing the shutter when turning the ring engaged two opposing focusing operations simultaneously.  

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

None of my other L mount lenses allow instant Manual focus override.  I have to either set the SL2 to MF, or when in AF modes, half press the shutter first then turn the focus ring in order to use manual focus.  Otherwise, I have to use the on-lens AF/MF switch on my Sigma lenses in order to access MF when I’m in any of the AF modes.  Not with the 28 Art.  Turn the ring in any mode at any time to use manual focus, using the switch is not necessary.  
yes the torque is generated from electronic motors instead of a helicoid.  Try the Sigma 28 to get an idea of the method I’m referring to.  On the A7r4 and A7r3: the operation of the focus ring conflicted with the AF-c operation of the focus motor, thus half pressing the shutter when turning the ring engaged two opposing focusing operations simultaneously.  

I am not sure what you refer to as "instant manual focus override."

Let's talk only about AFs and AFc mode (in-camera and on-lens) with AF activated by half-pressing the shutter. On all Leica L-mount lenses as well as on Sigma 45 (only Sigma I have), the focus ring does not do anything until I half-press the shutter. With the half-press of the shutter, the focus ring becomes active and allows manually tuning the focus ... in my book that is manual focus override, and it is pretty instant 😉.

How is it different on Sigma 28 Art? If you use the focus ring in an AF mode, is the ring active without half-pressing the shutter? What happens, when you later half-press the shutter (with focus assigned to half-press)? Thanks, would like to understand how it works with the Sigma 28mm Art lens. I must be missing something.

Just read about Sigma's manual override (MO). It is the same as what is implemented with SL2 and Leica's L-mount lenses: allows to  manually
override the autofocus while the shutter release button is pressed halfway. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by SrMi
Added MO info.

[NRKstudio]

9 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

Turn the ring in any mode at any time to use manual focus, using the switch is not necessary.  

Yes, you do not have to half press the shutter.  You can turn the ring without having to hold down the shutter halfway; thus the meaning of instant to me, no other button is required as a prerequisite to MF, only focus ring movement is required. 

7 hours ago, SrMi said:

I am not sure what you refer to as "instant manual focus override."

Let's talk only about AFs and AFc mode (in-camera and on-lens) with AF activated by half-pressing the shutter. On all Leica L-mount lenses as well as on Sigma 45 (only Sigma I have), the focus ring does not do anything until I half-press the shutter. With the half-press of the shutter, the focus ring becomes active and allows manually tuning the focus ... in my book that is manual focus override, and it is pretty instant 😉.

How is it different on Sigma 28 Art? If you use the focus ring in an AF mode, is the ring active without half-pressing the shutter? What happens, when you later half-press the shutter (with focus assigned to half-press)? Thanks, would like to understand how it works with the Sigma 28mm Art lens. I must be missing something.

Just read about Sigma's manual override (MO). It is the same as what is implemented with SL2 and Leica's L-mount lenses: allows to  manually
override the autofocus while the shutter release button is pressed halfway. 

 

[NRKstudio]

the Sigma 28/1.4 Art operates on the S1r and A7r4 (like the SL2) in that if you turn the focus ring (with or without half pressing the shutter, and without putting the on-lens switch into MF mode) you will change the focus distance.  However that’s where the similarities end. 

unfortunately, as the SL2 can not remove focusing actions from the shutter release button, the SL2 will reacquire focus when you press the shutter button to capture a photo.  It’s confusing as the Sigma 28 Art works very quickly on all Sony and Canon full frame cameras that allow back button focus (just turn the focus ring regardless of what focus mode the camera or lens is in, and then release the shutter).  

To manually focus the Sigma 35/1.2 or 45/2.8, it’s required that you either put the camera in MF, the lens in MF, or half press the shutter in AF.  that’s the positive difference about the 28/1.4 Art, which is not realized on the SL2 currently.  Hoping for a firmware update to bring BBF to the SL2 soon though.  

 

[SrMi]

44 minutes ago, NRKstudio said:

the Sigma 28/1.4 Art operates on the S1r and A7r4 (like the SL2) in that if you turn the focus ring (with or without half pressing the shutter, and without putting the on-lens switch into MF mode) you will change the focus distance.  However that’s where the similarities end. 

unfortunately, as the SL2 can not remove focusing actions from the shutter release button, the SL2 will reacquire focus when you press the shutter button to capture a photo.  It’s confusing as the Sigma 28 Art works very quickly on all Sony and Canon full frame cameras that allow back button focus (just turn the focus ring regardless of what focus mode the camera or lens is in, and then release the shutter).  

To manually focus the Sigma 35/1.2 or 45/2.8, it’s required that you either put the camera in MF, the lens in MF, or half press the shutter in AF.  that’s the positive difference about the 28/1.4 Art, which is not realized on the SL2 currently.  Hoping for a firmware update to bring BBF to the SL2 soon though.  

 

As described in this forum, SL2 has back-button focusing. It is enabled by switching the camera to MF and assigning AF-L to the joystick. This approach is different than other manufacturers, and it has some disadvantages, but it does implement back-button-focusing.

Back-button-focusing definition: disable focus operation from the shutter and use a back-button instead to activate focus. It does not matter if you have to switch to MF or AF mode as long as you can trigger AF with a back-button instead of the shutter. Do you use a different definition?

 

 

 

[NRKstudio]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

As described in this forum, SL2 has back-button focusing. It is enabled by switching the camera to MF and assigning AF-L to the joystick. This approach is different than other manufacturers, and it has some disadvantages, but it does implement back-button-focusing.

Back-button-focusing definition: disable focus operation from the shutter and use a back-button instead to activate focus. It does not matter if you have to switch to MF or AF mode as long as you can trigger AF with a back-button instead of the shutter. Do you use a different definition?

 

 

 

Thanks for the definition lol.  
 

A group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. In the case of the first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.

Yes BBF is available it is just not well done for me.  The Sigma 28 was delivered to me today, so I can say that now I have at least first hand experience.  Without that, it’s all just hearsay and speculation.  

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, NRKstudio said:

Thanks for the definition lol.  
 

A group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable". So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. In the case of the first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said "This being is like a thick snake". For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan. As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk. The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall". Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope. The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.

Yes BBF is available it is just not well done for me.  The Sigma 28 was delivered to me today, so I can say that now I have at least first hand experience.  Without that, it’s all just hearsay and speculation.  

Enjoy your Sigma 28 in good health and let us know how it works for you on your SL2.

Edited January 15, 2020 by SrMi

[NRKstudio]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Enjoy your Sigma 28 in good health and let us know how it works for you on your SL2.

Thank you, it’s a great addition to the L mount lineup, happy to see viable options materialize.

if you decide on using a 28 Art, I hope you enjoy it as well! please let us know how it works for you the same. 

[photonc]

On 1/15/2020 at 8:29 AM, NRKstudio said:

Thank you, it’s a great addition to the L mount lineup, happy to see viable options materialize.

if you decide on using a 28 Art, I hope you enjoy it as well! please let us know how it works for you the same. 

@NRKstudioHow are you liking the sigma 28 so far? Any sample photos you could share? 

[NRKstudio]

On 1/23/2020 at 3:47 PM, photonc said:

@NRKstudioHow are you liking the sigma 28 so far? Any sample photos you could share? 

Love it! Was my favorite on the A7r4, and now it is for my SL2.  I’m thinking of letting my 35/1.2 go, it’s just much bigger and sometimes not worth it.   Highly recommend the 28 Art....that is, until we see a 28 Summicron!  Really tho, I may never switch to the Cron, I like the f1.4.  
 

Also, video is great with it.  The shallow dof and high contrast/sharpness make for a cool, unique video look.   
 

Only hiccup is the LR profiles over compensate for distortion and shading, but not a big problem for me.  
 

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[NRKstudio]

@photonc the Sig 24-70 zoom will be here Monday, will have to get some time to test it and put up some pics.  Have you received yours? 

[NRKstudio]

Here’s some more 28 Art/SL2 shots.  First shot is cropped, second is not.  Both lens correction off (due to too much vignetting correction for me).  Both processed with Mastin Labs Tri-X film look preset.  Has anyone used these Mastin labs presets to mimic the look of different films? 

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Hallo,

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