rivi1969 Posted January 7, 2020 Share #61 Posted January 7, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Ko.Fe. said: We are very alike. I had M8 and 5D and like them. Still very appealing in 2020. You have excellent taste in cameras sir!! 😄 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Hi rivi1969, Take a look here Is the M9 still worth it in 2020?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gunston Posted January 9, 2020 Share #62 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) Same question repeatedly every year since it released ! i advise to get one and never look back, it is an amazing camera. Personnally still own M9-P and MM both in silver chrome 😃 Edited January 9, 2020 by gunston Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverchrome Posted January 9, 2020 Share #63 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) On 1/8/2020 at 3:29 AM, rivi1969 said: Whether a camera is "worth it" or "still good in..." are two entirely different questions. The image quality from a camera does not decrease with time but its value proposition might, especially if the camera in question still commands a high price. Used M9s are practically the same price as used M240s, a newer and more reliable camera. Many would say the M240 is a more pleasant camera to use as well. Those who simply want to get into the M system are better off buying the newer camera. Not least because it will be supported for longer. Edited January 9, 2020 by silverchrome Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted January 9, 2020 Share #64 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, silverchrome said: Used M9s are practically the same price as used M240s, a newer and more reliable camera. Many would say the M240 is a more pleasant camera to use as well. Those who simply want to get into the M system are better off buying the newer camera. Not least because it will be supported for longer. Are people really still comparing the M9 generation to subsequent M models? The sensor being totally different technology means the CMOS based M is neither better (IQ wise) nor an upgrade from the M9. You may just as well write that the M8 is an "upgrade" from the M7. I have not read much to suggest many would say the M240 is a more pleasant camera. In what way is it pleasant? What we can see throughout this forum is quite a few people finding the images produced by the M9 have certain characteristics that are lacking in CMOS based cameras. Some may like LiveView, movies and the other features the M240 has to offer and that would make it the ideal camera for them. But suggesting that people who want to get into the M system should go for the M240 with eyes closed simply because it's newer is doing them a great disservice IMO. Edited January 9, 2020 by ianman 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pragmatist Posted January 9, 2020 Share #65 Posted January 9, 2020 Answering the OP’s question, I would say absolutely yes. My photography is not based on what year it is or the latest and greatest products. I had the choice of going for a type 240 or really stretching myself and going for the M10 but I know how lovely the 9 is from previously owning them and I know how robust they are and how good they feel in the hand. The sensor replacements was the deal sealer for me and now I am the proud owner of an M9 and this time I’m keeping it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share #66 Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) I agree, I used the M9, M240, M10 and never felt that the M240 / M10 were better cameras (obviously, they are more advanced cameras, ie no dust gets in the sensor of the M10 whereas I have to keep cleaning my M9 sensor, the shutter sound is silent, the screen is great, ISO much better), but especially to those of us who shoot film, it's almost like using a film camera with a digital sensor, which for me is the best thing ever : ) Don't really need to worry about the screen as I never look at it anyway, and ISO limitations are similar to the real film speeds that I'm so used to anyway so it's easier to go back and forth between my M4 and M9. I'm now wondering, with the new Monochrom coming, if the same concept as above will still apply to Monochromatic cameras, and how the M10M will fare against the M9M in terms of image quality. I have only ever used the M9M, and never really tried the Monochrom typ246, so I just wonder if the CCD / CMOS difference is as relevant in B&W only cameras, as much as it is in color. Any experience / opinions on this from the members in this thread? : ) Edited January 10, 2020 by shirubadanieru Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 10, 2020 Share #67 Posted January 10, 2020 Advertisement (gone after registration) 2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said: I'm now wondering Thus far, the MM1 stands out for B&W within short distance followed by the M8, the M240 delivering not much surplusvalue, except movies in B&W, which can be a serious thing, only little artists have find a way to present these in a nice way to a public. The trend is that the more pixels, the less bite in the immediate results. The contrast of the 240 is lower at first sight than that from M8 and MM1. So, pre-ordering is not at all a good idea. I find 41Mp on a 24x36mm sensor severely at risk for digitally looking images, see for instance the SL2. The MM1 can also look too digital if you don’t pay attention in post. I would rather have less pixels on a bigger sensor, like at the S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirubadanieru Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share #68 Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, otto.f said: Thus far, the MM1 stands out for B&W within short distance followed by the M8, the M240 delivering not much surplusvalue, except movies in B&W, which can be a serious thing, only little artists have find a way to present these in a nice way to a public. The trend is that the more pixels, the less bite in the immediate results. The contrast of the 240 is lower at first sight than that from M8 and MM1. So, pre-ordering is not at all a good idea. I find 41Mp on a 24x36mm sensor severely at risk for digitally looking images, see for instance the SL2. The MM1 can also look too digital if you don’t pay attention in post. I would rather have less pixels on a bigger sensor, like at the S. Is the M8 better for b&w compared to the M9? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverchrome Posted January 10, 2020 Share #69 Posted January 10, 2020 17 hours ago, ianman said: Are people really still comparing the M9 generation to subsequent M models? The sensor being totally different technology means the CMOS based M is neither better (IQ wise) nor an upgrade from the M9. You may just as well write that the M8 is an "upgrade" from the M7. I have not read much to suggest many would say the M240 is a more pleasant camera. In what way is it pleasant? What we can see throughout this forum is quite a few people finding the images produced by the M9 have certain characteristics that are lacking in CMOS based cameras. Some may like LiveView, movies and the other features the M240 has to offer and that would make it the ideal camera for them. But suggesting that people who want to get into the M system should go for the M240 with eyes closed simply because it's newer is doing them a great disservice IMO. Instead of rushing to the defence of the M9 whenever you perceive a slight against it, you might want to read my original response again and take note of the inclusion of the word ‘simply’ in the final paragraph. Some people couldn’t give a monkey’s about the sensor and simply want a reliable digital M that they can use their M lenses with. For those people, the M240 is a better proposition than a ten-year-old digital camera known for its unreliability and handling quirks. You can wax lyrical as much as you want about the qualities of the M9, but that doesn’t detract from the fact(s) that it can lock up without warning, has issues with certain SD cards, has poor battery life and the rangefinder is more susceptible to drift than later Ms. All of which can have an impact on the user experience. On top of that, there is the question of parts. I believe Leica themselves have said that they only guarantee parts availability for ten years or so (or words to that effect). The M9 will be 11 years old this year. Are you seriously saying that knowing all of this you would advise someone to buy an M9 over an M240? Especially when the price of the two cameras are practically the same and the M240 is likely to be in better condition for the same money? I was replying to a comment questioning why people continue to ask if the M9’s image quality is still good in xxxx. Yes, it is still good in 2020 and it will continue to be good, no outstanding, for many years to come. But is it worth it in 2020? No, it isn’t for the reasons I have given above, UNLESS you are after the CCD aesthetic. I own 2 M9s and an M8, which I prefer to the M240, which I also have. I also prefer the images I get from the CCD cameras, but I still wouldn’t recommend any of the CCD cameras! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 10, 2020 Share #70 Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, shirubadanieru said: Is the M8 better for b&w compared to the M9? Absolutely. Also because of the better infrared results Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 10, 2020 Share #71 Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, otto.f said: Absolutely. Also because of the better infrared results I had both at same time and was unable to find any significant difference. Nor I could find supporting it pictures from others. I must be missing something very obvious, any pointers? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 11, 2020 Share #72 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said: very obvious As I said, infrared. I did not succeed to do that so easy so convincing as with M8. Jpeg out of camera, slightly better with M8. Postprocessing faster to get the real bite. I did not say that M9 is bad. There are individual differences, not only in good or bad, but also in taste. I’m not the only one on this forum who sees the M8 as a very good B&W camera. Edited January 11, 2020 by otto.f Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted January 11, 2020 Share #73 Posted January 11, 2020 5 hours ago, otto.f said: I’m not the only one on this forum who sees the M8 as a very good B&W camera. Not sure what this means. Is it not a good colour camera? Do you mean for out of camera jpegs? RAW files converted to b&w will not have any specific advantage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 11, 2020 Share #74 Posted January 11, 2020 It’s a good color camera too. Out of camera jpeg’s are good in B&W, not in color. Converting RAW does have advantage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ko.Fe. Posted January 11, 2020 Share #75 Posted January 11, 2020 18 hours ago, otto.f said: As I said, infrared. I did not succeed to do that so easy so convincing as with M8. Jpeg out of camera, slightly better with M8. Postprocessing faster to get the real bite. I did not say that M9 is bad. There are individual differences, not only in good or bad, but also in taste. I’m not the only one on this forum who sees the M8 as a very good B&W camera. I don't understand where on images it is showing as "a very good B&W camera". I'm not arguing about tastes, I just can't find the difference from M9 in BW. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Marshall Posted January 12, 2020 Share #76 Posted January 12, 2020 On 1/5/2020 at 3:00 PM, Topsy said: I have 3 M9 and have yet to see this colour cast, maybe it's not all M9s? Same here, never had that problem with my M9, even when I borrowed a 15mm lens and forgot to manually set the lens in menu. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 12, 2020 Share #77 Posted January 12, 2020 Reassured by Flat Field correction’s effectiveness in curing the ‘Elmarit greens”, I bought my friend’s M9P a few days ago. Along the way I spent a long time looking through my Lightroom catalogue. All my favourite digital shots since 2011 are taken with my first M9, much missed since 2014. My poor M240 has seen practically no meaningful action - it’s not a bad camera, and I will keep it because I value aspects of it a lot (especially long battery life and live view), but it lacks the simplicity, and its images the CCD punch, of the old M9. Al M9reno 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 12, 2020 Share #78 Posted January 12, 2020 Though questions of value are subjective, I should add that the price of the new-sensor M9 family is a good one for me, and far more justifiable than buying a new M10+ whatever. Having an M9 back, I’m now even curious about the Monochrom (MM1), which receives so much veneration, but which I never tried. Maybe it’s another classic to pick up used in 2020? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted January 13, 2020 Share #79 Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 5:29 PM, Ko.Fe. said: I don't understand where on images it is showing as "a very good B&W camera". I'm not arguing about tastes, I just can't find the difference from M9 in BW. Neither do I. There are so many adjustments in Lightroom that there is no an M8 or M9 BW look, nor any other camera for that matter. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted January 13, 2020 Share #80 Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/10/2020 at 3:50 AM, silverchrome said: “...the M240 is a better proposition than a ten-year-old digital camera... Are you seriously saying that knowing all of this you would advise someone to buy an M9 over an M240?” My M9P was made in 2011, new sensor installed in Sept. 2019, less than 3000 shutter clicks and still under Leica warranty. Hell YES I would recommend it over an M240 which by the way start production in 2012 -so is not like the latest and greatest tech either.- Maybe we all should get rid of our antiques and buy SL2s, or switch to Sony so we can have new bodies every 4 months. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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