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crawley5503

Saying so long to my CL

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First the background. I traded in my Fujifilm x Pro 2 for a CL. I have had other Leicas which I liked, so I thought the "upgrade"might be worth it.  I consider the two cameras to be very competitive and similar. On a recent out-of-town trip I was taking some pictures with the CL and needed to quickly adjust my exposure compensation. Which wheel? Where is it? I searched and turned and clawed at the unmarked wheels until I was almost out of breath (from cursing those who had written how intuitive this camera was...NOT) I then noticed that the camera was no longer in P mode but rather M.  And a few shots later it was in SCA or something.  Too small to actually decipher.  And still no direct access to exposure compensation. I wrote this all up to user error.

Last week on holiday, the same thing happened. Almost to a T. Then a new one jumped up.  Then camera told me it did not recognize my Lecia 18-56mm lens.  (The lens came with the camera and had been working properly for several weeks.)

I am beyond frustrated. Lucky for me I received an offer on an M 240 for a real steal... as well as a return to my Fujifilm x Pro2. I still dwell in the Leica camp with  VLUX 114, an ME 220 and now the M. But the CL is history. IT IS NOT INTUITIVE. Anybody tell you it is is scamming you.  It is a great camera.  I am sure of it. But I don;t know how to keep up with its settings in a workd where there is no definition as to left wheel and right wheel and no numbers to show me what the settings are. It reminds me of an Apple TV control device.  Way cool to look at, hard to use.

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The problem is worse if you mix and match cameras without setting your own preferences in User Profiles. Do that and you simply resort to a mode you can learn, master  and use without frustration. It can  be done; but too late for you, I fear.

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I had the same issue with my 18-56. Leica replaced it within a few days. As for user error, it is hard to blame the camera for  it. I feel  more or less the same way when I have to play the church organ on the back of my Panasonic and Sony cameras, but rather blame myself for not remembering what I assigned to the sixteen buttons and am happy to return to my CL, which I have never needed the manual for. I guess you intuition differs from most of us.

Anyway, it is good to have choices. If you don't mesh with a user interface, it is indeed time to move on. (Btw, if you push the centre button of the arrow pad, the viewfinder will display almost everything you need...)

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1 minute ago, wda said:

The problem is worse if you mix and match cameras without setting your own preferences in User Profiles. Do that and you simply resort to a mode you can learn, master  and use without frustration. It can  be done; but too late for you, I fear.

Ah- yes, the user profiles - one button push and you have all your favourite settings ready to hand...

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Simplicity for some, complexity for others. The digital CL could hardly feel more intuitive to me. I just choose my user profiles with the Fn button so i don't have to bother with the menu. I only use M and LTM lenses though.

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20 minutes ago, frame-it said:

which LTM's are you using on the CL ?

Tessar 35/3.5 and Elmar 35/3.5

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"Intuitive" means different things to different people. 

I'm perfectly happy with the UI of a Leica M. And I'm perfectly happy with the UI of a Leica CL. The M is simple ... I learned everything of significance a Leica M had to offer thirty plus years ago; I don't really think of that as intuitive. The CL, after owning the SL for several years and loving it, only took a couple of minutes to feel completely intuitive; it's not simple in the same manner as the M, but once you get the paradigm, it's very intuitive. 

It's a semantic game. The bottom line in the ergonomics and use of a camera is that if something frustrates you and something else doesn't, just go with the something else. It doesn't really make any difference what camera appeals more to you, the goal is that you feel comfortable and confident in making the photos you want. :D

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12 hours ago, lct said:

Simplicity for some, complexity for others. The digital CL could hardly feel more intuitive to me. I just choose my user profiles with the Fn button so i don't have to bother with the menu. I only use M and LTM lenses though.

I agree completely. I absolutely love the interface and handling of the CL. I have had TONS of cameras as many of you have - Leica film, Nikon D850s, the Fuji line, you name it. Dozens of cameras. Worst user interface of everything I've owned? Olympus OM-D E-M1 MkII. Loved the camera, hated the menu system. At present I have a Leica IIIG, Leica CL, Leica M10 and a Leica Q-P. They have one thing in common in my opinion (aside from the typical Leica optical performance) - ease of use. My favorite from a user interface perspective is the Q-P, second comes the CL and M10. And, well, the IIIG is a different beast altogether. Interestingly, I find some elements (like dynamic range) of the CL are better than the M10. You have to live with a certain level of complexity beyond the M series if you want autofocus. Personally, I don't use the M10 much now. I like the CL and Q-P combo and I honestly find rangefinder focussing a pain. But in no way would I call the CL complicated or unintuitive. My Fuji cameras were much more complicated to use if you got down into the menus. But everyone is different, so some people love the UI of the Fujis. My perfect camera (gasp and horror) would be an autofocus M a la Fuji X-Pro3. If Fuji can get all that goodness in a body that size, Leica should be able to as well. People will say that's the SL/SL2, but I love the form factor and build of the Ms. That's part of what makes them easy to use I think. I'm just tired of manually focussing these days and my eyes are getting old. A side note is you can actually focus manually with the CL using M lenses more accurately than you can with an M. One of the benefits of some of that electronic wizardry. 

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb crf59:

I agree completely. I absolutely love the interface and handling of the CL. I have had TONS of cameras as many of you have - Leica film, Nikon D850s, the Fuji line, you name it. Dozens of cameras. Worst user interface of everything I've owned? Olympus OM-D E-M1 MkII. Loved the camera, hated the menu system. At present I have a Leica IIIG, Leica CL, Leica M10 and a Leica Q-P. They have one thing in common in my opinion (aside from the typical Leica optical performance) - ease of use. My favorite from a user interface perspective is the Q-P, second comes the CL and M10. And, well, the IIIG is a different beast altogether. Interestingly, I find some elements (like dynamic range) of the CL are better than the M10. You have to live with a certain level of complexity beyond the M series if you want autofocus. Personally, I don't use the M10 much now. I like the CL and Q-P combo and I honestly find rangefinder focussing a pain. But in no way would I call the CL complicated or unintuitive. My Fuji cameras were much more complicated to use if you got down into the menus. But everyone is different, so some people love the UI of the Fujis. My perfect camera (gasp and horror) would be an autofocus M a la Fuji X-Pro3. If Fuji can get all that goodness in a body that size, Leica should be able to as well. People will say that's the SL/SL2, but I love the form factor and build of the Ms. That's part of what makes them easy to use I think. I'm just tired of manually focussing these days and my eyes are getting old. A side note is you can actually focus manually with the CL using M lenses more accurately than you can with an M. One of the benefits of some of that electronic wizardry. 

I agree absolutly with your post!

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I may have posted this already, but I tried the fuji line at a store and had to constantly ask questions (without having reviewed the manual online). I walked over to the leica counter and looked at the M series (didn't have the CL). Didn't have to ask any questions. Easy. Completely intuitive. I promptly ordered the CL online and am happy with the UI. Easiest yet. Seldom do I have to refer to the manual. I just wish the wheels had more friction. 

 

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On 1/4/2020 at 7:26 AM, crf59 said:

I agree completely. I absolutely love the interface and handling of the CL. I have had TONS of cameras as many of you have - Leica film, Nikon D850s, the Fuji line, you name it. Dozens of cameras. Worst user interface of everything I've owned? Olympus OM-D E-M1 MkII. Loved the camera, hated the menu system. At present I have a Leica IIIG, Leica CL, Leica M10 and a Leica Q-P. They have one thing in common in my opinion (aside from the typical Leica optical performance) - ease of use. My favorite from a user interface perspective is the Q-P, second comes the CL and M10. And, well, the IIIG is a different beast altogether. Interestingly, I find some elements (like dynamic range) of the CL are better than the M10. You have to live with a certain level of complexity beyond the M series if you want autofocus. Personally, I don't use the M10 much now. I like the CL and Q-P combo and I honestly find rangefinder focussing a pain. But in no way would I call the CL complicated or unintuitive. My Fuji cameras were much more complicated to use if you got down into the menus. But everyone is different, so some people love the UI of the Fujis. My perfect camera (gasp and horror) would be an autofocus M a la Fuji X-Pro3. If Fuji can get all that goodness in a body that size, Leica should be able to as well. People will say that's the SL/SL2, but I love the form factor and build of the Ms. That's part of what makes them easy to use I think. I'm just tired of manually focussing these days and my eyes are getting old. A side note is you can actually focus manually with the CL using M lenses more accurately than you can with an M. One of the benefits of some of that electronic wizardry. 

This is a spot on post: The auto-focus lenses for the TL (APS-c) mount that I own are all F3.5 and not particularly fast. I love using my fast Leica M-glass via the M to L adapters because the focus peaking and manual focus/aperture is intutive as to my old M bodies. I have it set to "peak red" and it is fast and easy. The 24mp sensor on the Digital CL is great, but the 24mp on the SL is superb....the T/SL Mount cameras are a new wave of Leica's and the new SIGMA/Panasonic/Leica alliance has brought excellent quality auto-focus lenses to Leica users. I recently bought a SIGMA 35mm f/1.4 Full Frame AF lens for the SL and, SIGMA's knowledge of auto focus engineering makes the SL fast to shoot and fats to focus....It's like having a DSLR in a mirrorless body...Leica, a niche manufacturer of cameras can stay relevant and exciting in this fashion.

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Posted (edited)

Well, I have to agree a bit with the OP. Its not the easiest but its manageable. 

Current solution is to only use one line of lenses (AF, L lenses) and set it up so the two dials and one "push" dial are all there is to master. That way, if not used for a couple of weeks, takes but a few seconds to get back in the groove. 

One could do the same with the manual lenses. Its just going back and forth between the manual M lenses and the AF lenses are two different setups, which can be a bit much if one isn't at the top of the game. So far, simplifying rules. 

Edited by geoffreyg

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What is the problem? Save your favourite  settings for either as a user profile and switch between profiles. The camera changes  the relevant functions anyway when the M adapter is mounted.

Come to think of it, I never change settings when switching between M and TL lenses. 

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56 minutes ago, jaapv said:

What is the problem? Save your favourite  settings for either as a user profile and switch between profiles. The camera changes  the relevant functions anyway when the M adapter is mounted.

Come to think of it, I never change settings when switching between M and TL lenses. 

I’ve never touched the wheels. Life is good. 

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7 hours ago, albert said:

I’ve never touched the wheels. Life is good. 

I don't know how you operate the CL camera without touching the wheels??                                                                                                                                           

 

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1 minute ago, ramarren said:

I don't know how you operate the CL camera without touching the wheels??                                                                                                                                           

 

perhaps via fotos on a phone ? 😀

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31 minutes ago, ramarren said:

I don't know how you operate the CL camera without touching the wheels??                                                                                                                                           

 

Everything on program and auto and push the shutter button. It will take robophotos like any P&S that way. 

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The joy of the CL is that it can easily go from full auto to full manual. My preference is “semi-auto” with f stop and exposure comp on the two wheels, and iso on the right wheel, top.  Makes it very easy to dial In the desired aperture. 

When mounting an M lens, the aperture control is on the lens and the wheel functions change accordingly.  Going back and forth between M and L lenses are two different setups, and is easy to do, if you are awake. But if half asleep, leaving it in one configuration is just easier to remember. 

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