JonPB Posted December 24, 2019 Share #1 Posted December 24, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) My M9's rangefinder patch does not move from 0.7m to ~1.5m. The rangefinder is accurate from ~1.5m to infinity. The framelines move from 0.7m to infinity. With the lens dismounted, I can push in the follower and feel less pressure initially as the framelines move, then there is more resistance when the rangefinder patch itself activates. The camera is in otherwise good condition and has not been used much since it returned from Leica for a sensor replacement. I don't see/hear/feel any signs of anything loose, rattling, bent or broken, but neither do I have another rangefinder to compare it to. Is there an at-home fix for this? I strongly suspect this will require a trip to Leica, but I cannot afford to send it for repairs right now and I admire the heck out of the expertise on this forum so I thought it would be worth a query. I'm comfortable tinkering with electronics and moderately sized mechanical things, so I'd be confident if this is the equivalent of opening up a mantelpiece clock to remove excess grease and dust from a large gear. But I'm guessing it is more like making adjustments to a mechanical wristwatch, and I don't have a clean-enough environment to be working with the sensor exposed for any significant duration. All thoughts welcome. Thank you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 24, 2019 Posted December 24, 2019 Hi JonPB, Take a look here Rangefinder patch stops moving; at-home fix?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mujk Posted December 26, 2019 Share #2 Posted December 26, 2019 It seems something got stuck inside the rangefinder mechanism, because the framelines move but the patch doesn't and focusing is accurate above 1,5m. The mechanism is quite complex, so there may not be an easy DIY fix, even if it were just some part that needed lubrication. I guess you have already tried to persuade it to start moving again by turning the focusing ring back and forth a number of times? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted December 26, 2019 Share #3 Posted December 26, 2019 A few more thoughts. There was once someone who disassembled an M9 and published the pictures and explanations, but I can't recall on what forum. If I remember correctly, you need to take off the top plate and a circuit board to expose the rangefinder mechanism. Can you verify that the rangefinder was ok after the camera came back from Leica after sensor replacement? They sometimes make mistakes when reassembling the camera after service. Happened to me once. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 26, 2019 Share #4 Posted December 26, 2019 Some lenses will turn to 70 cm but in general the RF is limited to 1 m. Are you sure the camera doesn't indicate focus between 1 m and 1.50 m.? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted December 26, 2019 Share #5 Posted December 26, 2019 1 hour ago, mujk said: A few more thoughts. There was once someone who disassembled an M9 and published the pictures and explanations, but I can't recall on what forum. If I remember correctly, you need to take off the top plate and a circuit board to expose the rangefinder mechanism. Can you verify that the rangefinder was ok after the camera came back from Leica after sensor replacement? They sometimes make mistakes when reassembling the camera after service. Happened to me once. It was an m8, which AFAIK is close enough to the m9 to be a useful guide and the link is There’s a youtube vid showing someone doing something with the RF mech of an M240 And an m9 good luck! Personally I’d contact Leica and see what they say.... FWIW (speaking as someone who can rebuild an motorcycle engine, and regulate a mechanical wristwatch) it all looks very scary after getting the top plate off and that’s about as far as I’d like to go! But my fear and limits aren’t yours. happy holiday season. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted December 26, 2019 Share #6 Posted December 26, 2019 4 hours ago, jaapv said: Some lenses will turn to 70 cm but in general the RF is limited to 1 m. Are you sure the camera doesn't indicate focus between 1 m and 1.50 m.? I just checked. The rangefinder patch starts moving already from 0,7m on the M9. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 26, 2019 Share #7 Posted December 26, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Possibly - it varies by type. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topsy Posted December 27, 2019 Share #8 Posted December 27, 2019 22 hours ago, Adam Bonn said: It was an m8, which AFAIK is close enough to the m9 to be a useful guide and the link is There’s a youtube vid showing someone doing something with the RF mech of an M240 And an m9 good luck! Personally I’d contact Leica and see what they say.... FWIW (speaking as someone who can rebuild an motorcycle engine, and regulate a mechanical wristwatch) it all looks very scary after getting the top plate off and that’s about as far as I’d like to go! But my fear and limits aren’t yours. happy holiday season. FWIW (speaking as someone who can rebuild an motorcycle engine, and regulate a mechanical wristwatch) it all looks very scary after getting the top plate off and that’s about as far as I’d like to go! 2 skills I also have and I'd not try to mess with my M9 rangefinder system either. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted December 27, 2019 Share #9 Posted December 27, 2019 I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole. Bargepoles are unsuitable tools for this kind of work. 2 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted December 27, 2019 Share #10 Posted December 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Topsy said: 2 skills I also have and I'd not try to mess with my M9 rangefinder system either. I think when it comes to things like this, we find our limits by pushing them. When my ambition exceeds my ability with the watches, I know a local guy who’ll see me right, normally while I wait and usually for beer money. If I break the M9, I can’t think of a anything to do except send it off to the mothership, wait for ages and fret about the cost. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted December 27, 2019 Share #11 Posted December 27, 2019 In a situation like this I would probably take off the top plate and, if needed, some other part(s) covering the rangefinder mechanism and then study what happens when focussing. If there were any obvious obstacle to rangefinder prism movement (it's the small one behind the rangefinder window that moves), I might try to remove that. Otherwise it would go to Leica. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted December 28, 2019 Share #12 Posted December 28, 2019 Correction to my previous post: it's not the prism itself that moves when focusing, but some part of the assembly next to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share #13 Posted December 28, 2019 On 12/26/2019 at 2:36 AM, jaapv said: Some lenses will turn to 70 cm but in general the RF is limited to 1 m. Are you sure the camera doesn't indicate focus between 1 m and 1.50 m.? Yes. It is a bit disconcerting that I can move the focus ring through about half of its rotation without the rangefinder patch moving at all -- which is an issue that did not previously exist with this camera. Thanks for helping, though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted December 28, 2019 Author Share #14 Posted December 28, 2019 On 12/26/2019 at 2:26 AM, mujk said: Can you verify that the rangefinder was ok after the camera came back from Leica after sensor replacement? They sometimes make mistakes when reassembling the camera after service. Happened to me once. I cannot verify that, which bothers me. The camera was away for repair for several months and in the meantime my workflow moved away from Leica. I used it a few times after it returned, but never noticed any problem as I rarely shoot subjects closer than 2m. Picking it up again to see if I wanted to sell it, I found this problem, didn't want to sell it in poor repair, and then didn't want to sell it because it is an amazing device. I've also collapsed an Elmar-M 50mm f/2.8 into the camera. It didn't seem to cause any problems, but this might be exactly the kind of problem that led them to write in the M9 manual not to do that. I'll look over those videos and see if I feel up to it. If I do, seems like it might be worthwhile to document the process for anyone who follows in my footsteps. Thank you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share #15 Posted December 29, 2019 On 12/27/2019 at 3:36 AM, Adam Bonn said: If I break the M9, I can’t think of a anything to do except send it off to the mothership, wait for ages and fret about the cost. That's pretty much where I'm at. Right now, the camera works great in every other way. The question I'm looking at is whether opening it up has a good chance of making things worse. I'd be fascinated to see the fiddly mechanical bits, but I do not want to mess with the irreparable electronics. I appreciate your links to those videos! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Bonn Posted December 30, 2019 Share #16 Posted December 30, 2019 On 12/29/2019 at 12:02 AM, JonPB said: That's pretty much where I'm at. Right now, the camera works great in every other way. The question I'm looking at is whether opening it up has a good chance of making things worse. I'd be fascinated to see the fiddly mechanical bits, but I do not want to mess with the irreparable electronics. I appreciate your links to those videos! Taking the top plate off and having a look at what’s happening with the lens attached might be a safe bet.. you could try reaching out to the person that posted the m8 teardown thread, as we say on my side of the pond; they seem to know their onions and see if they’ve any advice... if (IF) you’ve damaged something using the Elmar 50, then you can’t be the first person to do that so it might be worth some research around that.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted December 30, 2019 Share #17 Posted December 30, 2019 The main reason for the warnings about collapsing lenses into a digital M body is the risk of the back if the lens hitting the shutter. I don't think collapsing the lens straight into the body could damage the rangefinder mechanism. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asi_Pro Posted October 9, 2020 Share #18 Posted October 9, 2020 Hi, I'm having the same issue on an M10P, did you resolve it? How? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted October 9, 2020 Share #19 Posted October 9, 2020 On 12/30/2019 at 7:58 PM, mujk said: The main reason for the warnings about collapsing lenses into a digital M body is the risk of the back if the lens hitting the shutter. I don't think collapsing the lens straight into the body could damage the rangefinder mechanism. No, it is not. The main risk is hitting either the inside of the "mouth" or the baffles in front of the shutter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mujk Posted October 9, 2020 Share #20 Posted October 9, 2020 44 minutes ago, jaapv said: No, it is not. The main risk is hitting either the inside of the "mouth" or the baffles in front of the shutter. You are correct. It's the upper and lower frame around the shutter, not the shutter blades themselves, that may be hit when collapsing some lenses straight into the body. If collapsing the lens at an angle, which is possible with some lenses, it may be possible to hit something else as well, possibly also touching the flat side of the roller, which then, at least in theory, could cause some damage to the rangefinder mechanism. I made a test with a 1937 5cm Elmar, which has a sort of lugs around the perimeter of the inner end of the lens tube (used to lock it in the extended position), and an M6TTL. When carefully positioning one of the lugs at the position of the roller and bending the lens barrel downwards when collapsing, I just managed to touch the flat side of the roller. It may of course be easier with some other lenses. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/304715-rangefinder-patch-stops-moving-at-home-fix/?do=findComment&comment=4060078'>More sharing options...
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