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kavudan

Anyone move to the CL from a Fuji X-T3?

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Been on the fence buying the CL (from a member here, actually).  I currently am deeply invested in a Fuji X-T3 system....I love a lot of things about it...but the colors feel a bit off...and I love what I see from the CL in terms of color and micro contrast.  Just wondering if anyone has made this move and knew the pros and cons of making this switch.

 

thanks

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23 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

The biggest questions are:

How much do have invested in lenses?

Do you shoot RAW?
 

I have 3 primes (23, mitakon 35, and the 56mm)  and 2 zooms (the excellent but heavy 16-55 and the cheaper but sharp 55-200).

 

On the Fuji, I've shot mostly jpeg since the engine is pretty good for it, though I'd shoot dng w the CL. 

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I’m sure I will be flogged for saying this, but I would stick with Fuji - that’s a lot of lenses to replace. I also don’t know about keeping the lenses and using an adaptor to convert for use on the CL.

In addition I would make the smaller investment of Lightroom, or equivalent, and learn how to adjust RAW images out of your XT-3 until you’re satisfied with them.

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7 minutes ago, Le Chef said:

I’m sure I will be flogged for saying this, but I would stick with Fuji - that’s a lot of lenses to replace. I also don’t know about keeping the lenses and using an adaptor to convert for use on the CL.

In addition I would make the smaller investment of Lightroom, or equivalent, and learn how to adjust RAW images out of your XT-3 until you’re satisfied with them.

Appreciate your input!  I do use Lightroom already, so no worries there...I do think if I keep the fuji I will be shifting to RAW and seeing if I can tweak the colors a bit more to my liking.

 

As for the CL, I'm looking at a deal that would include the 18, 23, and 35...so I'd have a good head start on lenses.

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1 hour ago, Le Chef said:

I’m sure I will be flogged for saying this, but I would stick with Fuji - that’s a lot of lenses to replace. I also don’t know about keeping the lenses and using an adaptor to convert for use on the CL.

In addition I would make the smaller investment of Lightroom, or equivalent, and learn how to adjust RAW images out of your XT-3 until you’re satisfied with them.

Le Chef is totally correct. I’m sure he is going to get flogged for saying that 😄

But I agree with him. If you just want a CL (nothing wrong with that!), then by all means get a CL. But if the rationalization for a CL is that Fuji color is not appealing to you, there are less drastic means to fix your problem.

I have operational problems with Fuji cameras but generally regard their optics as excellent. I had a system and didn’t like the color, I’d fix the color before tossing the system. I have no idea what reference you are using for CLs (camera jpgs, processed jpgs or DNGs, or unprocessed DNGs), but I shoot DNG only (on several systems, Leica and otherwise) and of course those, for my purposes, also need work on both color and contrast. In other words, with the caveat that I’m only guessing about your requirements and process, I don’t think a new camera is going to get you out of adjusting images.

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I personally would also stick with Fuji and explore the Fuji raw files first before making any decisions.

Buying a new body and replacing 5 lenses will cost you a lot of money with potentially little return...

If you do decide to make the jump I would go for a 18-56mm kit or a 18mm kit first.

And hold off on selling the Fuji gear till you are sure that the Leica is the improvement you were looking for.  

 

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I have the Fuji XT-1 and the Leica CL.

There are fine lenses available for both.

Overall, I prefer the rendering of the Leica engine.

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On 12/18/2019 at 4:56 PM, kavudan said:

Appreciate your input!  I do use Lightroom already, so no worries there...I do think if I keep the fuji I will be shifting to RAW and seeing if I can tweak the colors a bit more to my liking.

 

As for the CL, I'm looking at a deal that would include the 18, 23, and 35...so I'd have a good head start on lenses.

Don't think a Leica doesn't need a raw workflow to get the best out of it, in fact, if you prefer to shoot jpg directly, I would advise you to look to other brands.

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33 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Don't think a Leica doesn't need a raw workflow to get the best out of it, in fact, if you prefer to shoot jpg directly, I would advise you to look to other brands.

Yes. I use/have used Nikon, Fuji and Leica cameras.

In all cases, RAW files enable(d) much more scope for extracting maximum image quality.

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On 12/18/2019 at 3:56 PM, kavudan said:

Appreciate your input!  I do use Lightroom already, so no worries there...I do think if I keep the fuji I will be shifting to RAW and seeing if I can tweak the colors a bit more to my liking.

 

As for the CL, I'm looking at a deal that would include the 18, 23, and 35...so I'd have a good head start on lenses.

With the Fuji, have a look online at various users who have tweaked the jpg settings to acquire the colours and contrast they desire. I have a Q, CL and a Fuji XPro 2. While the Leicas look better working with RAW in LR (I've noticed quite a bit of magenta CA on my CL jpgs), I can achieve the look I want just shooting jpg on the fuji.

While Fuji is usually lambasted for its menu options, the film simulations (especially Acros and Classic Chrome) and additional jpg settings do allow you to cut right down on time in front of the computer.

However if you've just got GAS, get the CL - it's a lovely little camera and with the tiny M 28mm 2.8 is pretty much all i need day to day and easily slips into a coat pocket.

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If you only shoot jpeg, don't choose the CL.  

If you adjust the jpeg-"standard"-mode, the colours are good, but the pictures are quite weak, not sharp.

If you adjust jpeg-"neutral" or -"vivid"-mode, the jpegs are very sharp, but the colours are too cool.

I tested all possible adjustments, its always the same like written above, with 18 and 23 lens.

I will contact Leica soon about that problem, but I don't have big hope for are change.

Jpegs are not the strength of Leica since the X-series.

I will wait for the new Fuji X200 an will make a comparison and a decision then, because I don't like spending time for RAW development.

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vor 23 Minuten schrieb jaapv:

Postprocessing is exactly the same for raw and JPG and does not cost extra time. Rather the opposite...🙄

I don´t discuss this anymore, because no one of the german RAW fanboys could show it in reality to me

Edited by AndreasB

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I'll happily do so, should we meet. I dare you to see a difference in opening a DNG or a JPG in Lightroom.Exactly the same workflow

"Fanboy" is quite insulting, Don't use it on a forum please.

JPG is a Kaufhaus print, DNG can be a Whitewall one.

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Since 2 years I’m back in my hobby photography. Started 2018 with the SL 601. Swapped in 2019 February to the CL because of the weight of the SL. As a former computer man I tried to go my way with my hobbies , Hifi etc., not to have too much digital support. I prefer almost if possible analog solutions.

But now I’m so surprised which potential gave my digital Leica’s and I’m looking forward to use all options they deliver. Thus the format ‘DNG’ is for me state of the art. I do all my photographing in ‘DNG’  and if necessary (whatsap etc.) I export them by Adobe Lightroom in a ‘JPG’-format. 

By the way I would recommend “WE TRANSFER.COM” for sending the big “DNG”-Format in email.

A last note what I figured out, is the display to look my  pictures, Monitor or TV Screen. I changed my PC Monitor to EIZO  and a graphic board which fits the EIZO , 10 bpc. And its fantastic!

Best regards and happy holidays to all my Leica-Forum friends

Fred

"Wer kämpft kann verlieren, wer nicht kämpft hat schon verloren"     B. Brecht

 

 

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vor 16 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

I'll happily do so, should we meet. I dare you to see a difference in opening a DNG or a JPG in Lightroom.Exactly the same workflow

"Fanboy" is quite insulting, Don't use it on a forum please.

JPG is a Kaufhaus print, DNG can be a Whitewall one.

This is not a thread discussing the difference between Raw-development and shooting jpeg directly. And I don´t load my jpegs nor the DNGs in Lightroom. I would like to have good jpegs straight of the camera and that is not the strength of the CL. I didn´t tell Kavudan, that he should shoot jpegs. I wanted to tell him the "problems" with the CL shooting jpeg directly. That was all. 

And I never will accept that many RAW shooters have a biting reflex against "direct jpeg shooters".  There´s never only one truth!

 

And for me, your last sentence is also a insult against "only jpeg" shooters, only better hidden as "fanboy". 

 

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Is it? I regard it as a statement of fact. Everybody is free to choose his level. I just wonder about the dissonance between the quality of the recording gear and the low quality demand demand for the end result. 

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Why should a ooc-jpeg shooter not use a nice gear like a Leica CL? RAW-experts shoot Leica, the rest can do it with another brand? Its not only the output, its also user-interface, easy handling and more.

I can see many photos in this and other forums from Raw-shooters, which they should have better shot directly in jpeg-mode. For not "RAW professional users" like me its often hard to beat a good ooc-jpeg with raw-developing. And many differences appear for me more in the theoretical level than in the practical level. I´m sure it will be totally the opposite for a raw-expert.

But I think we will destroy now the thread with this fruitless discussion and I move over back into the german part.

I wonder, that the Mod watched so long without a warning to this off-topic 😉

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How you use any camera is up to you. There are enough reviews out there of the CL that talk about output from both DNG and JPG. There are also enough articles about what RAW can deliver in processing programs vs what you can expect with JPG manipulation. It’s also easy to borrow a CL from an AD and compare the outputs for yourself.

At the end of the day you take all this information and decide. Caveat Emptor!

Edited by Le Chef

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