Scanning 6X6 (Hasselblad)

[jonnyboy]

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I recently acquired an Hasselblad 500cm - my first time shooting medium format, so refreshing!

I just got my negatives back from the lab and I was wondering what would be a good way to scan those big negatives? I have a Plustek Opticfilm 8100 which does the job with 35mm but not 6X6

Any  recommendation? I think I will sell my Plustek and get a all-around scanner - maybe Epson V600?

[Keith (M)]

I use an Epson V700 and the EpsonScan software - works very well (for me, anyway!).

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[alb59]

The V600 should do it. I’ve used it in medium format often. But for me, the best way is to send my film to Darkroom Labs where standard scans are free with the developing service.

[Doc Henry]

I agree with Keith for MF and 35mm   Epson V700 ... and with Epson Software (not VS or SF softwares , keep your money) 

...  or Nikon 8000 or 9000 or Hasselblad. If not V600  it's satisfying !  

Best  H 

[Jossie]

What is the required resolution of the planned scans in ppi?

What is the intended use of the scans?

For a test report of the Epson V800 (successor of the V700) look here. But you should view the resolution discussions there with a grain of salt since these tests overstate the accuracy of the resolution determination considerably.

Nikon is a different category than a flatbed scanner like the Epson and the Hasselblad scanner again is a different category than the Nikon. Nikons are no longer produced for a long time, Hasselblad scanners are no longer available since recently. At least Nikon does no longer support the scanners.

Hermann-Josef

Edited December 14, 2019 by Jossie

[Doug A]

I agree that the Epson V660/V700/V800 will work well for MF, with the caveat that the MF film holder of the V800/V850 is horrible. There are good aftermarket solutions. If you go with an Epson flatbed I would keep the Plustek too. I have both a Plustek 8100 and an Epson V700 and got noticeably sharper 35mm scans with the Plustek.

I switched to scanning my 35mm negatives with a digital camera a few years ago. On the rare occasions that I scan MF I switch lenses and use the same setup for full frame MF scans.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Doug A

[tom.w.bn]

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My V800 died a couple of months ago. Watched a lot of videos on Youtube about scanning with a digital camera. Tried it and like it very much. Very good quality and it's so much faster than a scanner. You need a bit more time converting images from raw-negativ to a positive though.

Edited December 14, 2019 by tom.w.bn

[tommonego@gmail.com]

I found the V700 was very good for 35 and 4x5 scans but not as good on 120 film, I used the Epson film holders, I don't think the 120 holder has the film as flat as with 35. But when I do the scans for 35 and 4x5 grain is visible so the holders are calibrated properly. I would look at the V800 and see if it works any better on 120. I have been thinking about the Nikon 9000ed medium format scanner but the firewire interface is a negative, I would have to buy a desktop to interface. If you have an old Mac or PC with firewire the Nikon would be the best choice. 

With the Epson the resolution in practice is no better than 2400 or 3200ppi depending on who you talk to, I am in the 3200 camp. Any higher res just increases your scanning time with no image improvement.

Another option is to photograph the negatives with a digital camera, you can increase your final resolution by doing multiple exposures of the negative. Most people use a high res SLR for this. Light sources are an issue, but not hard to figure out.

Edited December 14, 2019 by tommonego@gmail.com

[Jossie]

Using digital cameras for scanning you loose the IR-based dust and scratch removal, which is - to my opinion - a very strong drawback. Colour management for slides (not for negatives) is, however, possible using suitable targets.

Resolution of flatbed scanner is also an issue. The measured resolution often falls way behind the one quoted in the data sheets. I.e. the image size produced is factors too large and has to be reduced by binning.

Hermann-Josef

[Doug A]

Of course IR-based based dust and scratch removal doesn't work with silver gelatin black and white negatives. The scanner can't distinguish between physical silver particles in the film and physical defects on the film. I bought the Plustek 8100 which doesn't have the IR source, rather than the more expensive model that does, because I don't shoot color negatives.

Some people I talk with online are reporting good results with Negative Lab Pro for color scans with digital cameras.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Doug A

[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, Jossie said:

Using digital cameras for scanning you loose the IR-based dust and scratch removal, which is - to my opinion - a very strong drawback. Colour management for slides (not for negatives) is, however, possible using suitable targets.

Resolution of flatbed scanner is also an issue. The measured resolution often falls way behind the one quoted in the data sheets. I.e. the image size produced is factors too large and has to be reduced by binning.

Hermann-Josef

The main  problems with flatbed scanners are low resolution, Dmax and lack of focus adjustment, although the latter can be worked around with some 3rd party film carriers. You will also struggle to extract shadow detail from transparency film with a flatbed scanner.

If your budget runs to it, I'd go for the Plustek 120 for your mf film, if you were using 35mm film only, I'd go for a Nikon D850, film holder and 60mm macro lens rather than a Plustek 35mm scanner.  Personally, I would avoid all Nikon scanners now due to obsolescence, age and lack of support.  

As far as dust and scratch removal software goes, I never use it.  Learn to work clean and accept retouching goes with the territory.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Ouroboros

[250swb]

Keep your Plustek for 35mm and get an Epson V800 for medium format (or push the boat out and get a Plustek 120 to do both). The Epson is terrible for 35mm bit very good for medium format, but this has always been the case with Epson flatbed scanners. Do not be swayed by talk of IR dust removal etc. in any scanner because as has been pointed out it doesn't work with B&W and as with using scanner software for sharpening it degrades the image before you've even got the picture into Lightroom. It is true that scanners generally have a lower dynamic range than a camera, but you can go a long way towards compensating for this by making your scans low contrast and then using Lightroom or Photoshop to adjust them, and likewise do the image sharpening.

[Jossie]

10 hours ago, 250swb said:

Do not be swayed by talk of IR dust removal etc. in any scanner because as has been pointed out it doesn't work with B&W and as with using scanner software for sharpening it degrades the image

I should have pointed out that my remark about the IR-based dust and scratch removal was of general nature since I often read that digitizing with digital cameras is better than scanning. Thus I also pointed out the possibility of colour managament, which of course also does not hold for B&W negatives. Sorry for the confusion.

However, if you use the correct software, IR-based dust and scratch removal does not destroy the resolution, since it operates only on the defects. Of course, the information under the defect is lost.

Hermann-Josef

[jonnyboy]

I'm not too fuss about resolution I just want some nice detailed scan... argh I really don't want to have 2 scanners I didn't knew Plustek would give better results than the Epson V800 scanner!

Plustek 120 at more than £1000 is a quite out of reach for me at the moment.

I'm going to have a look at some tutorial how to scan with digital camera as I have a Sony A7iii with Canon 100mm macro - that should do!

[MarkP]

I have no connection with this company but I found them on eBay.  Scan Tech sells ant-Newton glass for a variety of film formats for Epson scanners (my V700 till it died).  These also did an excellent job of securing and flattening the negatives in their holders.

[Jossie]

27 minutes ago, jonnyboy said:

I'm going to have a look at some tutorial how to scan with digital camera

Here is a description of a setup. Unfortunetely it is in German, but Google translate might help.

Hermann-Josef

[250swb]

46 minutes ago, jonnyboy said:

I'm not too fuss about resolution I just want some nice detailed scan... argh 

No wonder you say 'argh' with a non sequitur like that.....!

There are many ways to get the job done, but with scanning remember this, if you don't get the job done right in the first place you risk having to do it all over again when or if you find a better way. This is why any time you hear 'good enough for the internet' it is poor advice since scanning is time consuming whichever way it's done, and a little extra time doing a full resolution high quality scan on a good machine and saving this as a master file can lead to extra leeway in post processing, scans good enough for prints, and yes also with resizing scans for the internet. So time is valuable, don't use it up twice.

[tom.w.bn]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jonnyboy:

I'm not too fuss about resolution I just want some nice detailed scan... argh I really don't want to have 2 scanners I didn't knew Plustek would give better results than the Epson V800 scanner!

Plustek 120 at more than £1000 is a quite out of reach for me at the moment.

I'm going to have a look at some tutorial how to scan with digital camera as I have a Sony A7iii with Canon 100mm macro - that should do!

As a lightsource I bought a Kaiser slimlite plano and it works really well.

[Jossie]

45 minutes ago, 250swb said:

doing a full resolution high quality scan on a good machine and saving this as a master file

Fully agreed!

In addition, check your setup carefully before going into "production". With this I mean, check the resolution with a suitable target, check the exposure with histograms for under- or overexposure, for colour work, set up a workflow for colour management etc. Another issue for large number of images is the archival of the images (several copies on different places!) and the documentation in the metadata (I would discourage use of commercial software like Adobe's Bridge etc., look what happened to Google's Picasa, which is no longer supoorted).

Hermann-Josef

PS: The link above is for slides in format 24x36mm, but maybe there are ideas applicable also to medium format negatives ...

Edited December 15, 2019 by Jossie

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[Ouroboros]

1 hour ago, Jossie said:

Here is a description of a setup. Unfortunetely it is in German, but Google translate might help.

Hermann-Josef

And this is why the Nikon D850 and ES-2 solution is a better one for dslr scanning.