deekay Posted December 11, 2019 Share #1 Posted December 11, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm new to the Leica world. Is there a cheat-sheet for what all the various lens nomenclatures mean? For example, Summicron vs Summilux, SL vs TL etc etc etc? Right now I am comparing a Summilux-TL and a Summilux-SL lens (35 mm). They have rather different price points as well as other differences. Thanks in advance... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 11, 2019 Posted December 11, 2019 Hi deekay, Take a look here Cheat-sheet for Leica lenses?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ianman Posted December 11, 2019 Share #2 Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) The name can refer to the max aperture. Summilux is f/1.4, Summicron is f/2. Elmarit is f/2.8. Noctilux varies from 0.95 to - I think - 1.2 for the 75mm M mount. The TL and SL you mention refer the the mount. I know nothing about any of the mounts except M, so maybe someone else can shed some light on those. You can also find useful information in the wiki (link in the top menu bar). There was also a poster of all M mount lenses ever made available some time ago. I'll see if I can dig out a link. edit: here's the link to the poster but it looks like it's sold out. You can send him an email, he's a very nice man, I bought my 35mm Summaron f/2.8 from him. http://affiche.simplesite.com/ Edited December 11, 2019 by ianman 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deekay Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted December 11, 2019 Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deekay Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share #4 Posted December 11, 2019 What does APO refer to? I note that an equivalent focal length (fast) Summilux (1.4) is about half the price of an APO Summicron (2.0). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 11, 2019 Share #5 Posted December 11, 2019 It's a type of correction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apochromat You'll also see some ASPH, which means aspheric correction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspheric_lens Some lenses are both APO and ASPH, such as the current 90mm Summicron, and 50mm Summicron (M Mount). You will probably come across people mentioning "pre-asph", which refers to older lenses of a type of which later versions are ASPH. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deekay Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted December 11, 2019 Thanks ianman. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted December 11, 2019 Share #7 Posted December 11, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) By your posts you seem to be interested in modern lenses, but when you go into vintage lenses you will find yourself lost in trying to make sense eg a Hektor can be a 28mm f6.3, a 50mm f2.5 , a 73mm f1.9 or a 135mm f4.5, all LTM, or a 125mm f 2.5 for Visoflex. There were also some Hektor lenses for projectors. Legend has it that the original Hektor was Max Berek's dog. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 12, 2019 Share #8 Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) Mounts: LTM (Leica thread mount) or screw-mount or M39 mount. The original mount Leica used between 1931 and 1960. For rangefinder cameras. LTM lenses can be adapted with a simple 1mm ring to work on M cameras (right up to today's) - but M-mount lenses cannot be adapted to LTM cameras. Canon and several others made use of the M39 mount as well. M-Mount - the four-flange bayonet introduced in 1954 and still used today on the M cameras. The original compact-Leica "CL" for film used the M mount, but its kit-lenses (40mm and 90mm), while fitting and functioning, are slightly different mechanically and designated "-C." R-mount - the three-flange bayonet used for Leica's film SLR system 1964-2007. These come in several "flavors" that have to do with the communication between lens and camera (analog levers and cams - and later electrical contacts). Original was 2-cam. Upgrade about 1968 was to 3-cam. Downgraded or simplified in the 1980s for the normal kit lens 50 Summicron to save money and listed as "R-Only" (= 1 cam). In the 1990s, silicon chips with electric contacts were added - these are called ROM lenses (for their read-only-memory chips). R-mount lenses of most types can be adapted to TL, SL or M cameras these days, as well as Canon, Sony, Fuji (and with some work Nikon) mounts. TL-mount - A mount for the cropped or APS or "half-frame" digital sensor (24mm x 16mm) - e.g. the Leica T for which it is named, but also the CL digital camera. SL-mount - interchangeable with the TL mount (usually) but covers a full 24x36mm sensor. Thus SL lenses are more valuable and costlier. TL lenses on an SL camera will not allow full use of the sensor, but otherwise work normally. SL lenses can definitely be used on TL cameras. but will be cropped to a smaller image area. S-mount - the mount for the Leica S medium-format camera series Lens names not already covered: Anastigmat and Elmax- 50mm f/3.5 lenses for the first year of Leica production 1924-25 - replaced by first 50mm Elmar f/3.5 Summar - Leica's first f/2 lens - a 50mm Summitar - a revised 50mm f/2, preceding the first Summicron Summarit - a name used four times for different things. Originally, the 50mm f/1.5 in LTM or M mount, that preceded the 50mm Summiluxes, post-WW2 though the 1950s. Name recycled in the 1990s for a fixed 40mm f/2.4 lens on a compact film P&S camera (Leica Minilux). Now used for a budget line of f/2.4 (originally f/2.5) M-mount lenses of lengths 35, 50, 75 and 90mm, and for the far-from-budget f/2.4 lenses for the medium-format S-Mount. (No-one says Leica has been perfectly consistent in lens naming over the decades ). Xenon - pre-1950 name for the Summarit 50 f/1.5 - Schneider trademark for this Schneider-designed lens. Summaron - 28mm or 35mm M-mount and LTM wide-angle lenses of the 1950s, with apertures from f/5.6 to f/2.8. 28mm f/5.6 Summaron recently revived for "retro" pictures. Summarex - an 85mm f/1.5 lens, 1943-1960 Elmar - a lens of f/3.5 or slower (although there were also two 50mm f/2.8 Elmars) - the "Elmarit" name for f/2.8 was not introduced until 1960 Elcan or ELCAN - various lenses made strictly for Cold War military use by Ernst Leitz Canada in Ontario - 50, 66, 75, 180mm focal lengths (at least). in M- or R-mount. The 180 was eventually release to the public as the 180 APO-Telyt f/3.4, Leica's first APO-designated lens. Thambar - a 90mm f/2.2 soft-focus portrait lens in LTM mount - recently revived as a "retro" design in M-Mount. Name from the Greek word thambos, meaning "amazement" or "wonder." Tele- - as a prefix, for three M lenses of 90 or 135mm, that had tele-photo construction - lenses very compact for their nominal focal lengths. e.g. 90mm Tele-Elmarit f/2.8 or 135 Tele-Elmar f/4. And one rare early 180mm Tele-Elmarit f/2.8 for the Visoflex viewing device. Telyt - used for long lenses, 135, 180, 250, 280......800mm. Sometimes APO-Telyt. Only for the SLR "R-mount" cameras, except for the current M-mount 135mm APO-Telyt Super-Angulon - three specific 21mm super-wide-angles for M or R mount, 1960-ish to 1980, designed by Schneider-Kreuznach, not Leitz. And one 28mm perspective-adjusting lens in R-Mount. Super-Angulon is a Schneider trademark. Hologon - Zeiss trademark for a 15mm ultra-wide-angle lens, of which a few were made in M-mount ("für Leica") around 1968. Velostigmat - non-Leica lenses contracted out to Wollensak by Leitz New York, while Leica lenses were unobtainable during and after WW2. In LTM-mount. Vario- - as a prefix = zoom lenses Put them all together and one gets, for example, Vario-Elmarit-SL-ASPH 24-90 f/2.8-f/4. Translated = Vario (zoom-lens) -Elmarit (f/2.8 at least at one focal length) -SL (for SL-mount cameras) -ASPH (with at least one aspheric element). Edited December 12, 2019 by adan 1 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 12, 2019 Share #9 Posted December 12, 2019 Andy just filled in the bits I missed out.... show off 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 12, 2019 Share #10 Posted December 12, 2019 Yeah, sorry about that. Once I get started, I just know someone from the Collectors & Historica Forum will fuss and bitch if I leave anything out (which I probably still did...). 3 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 12, 2019 Share #11 Posted December 12, 2019 You are one of the most knowledgeable members on the forum Andy. Your posts are always complete and detailed - and yes sometimes quite long 🙂 - but I'm sure I speak for many when I say thank you for sharing your knowledge!! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 12, 2019 Share #12 Posted December 12, 2019 Just to polish off. There was a time when Leitz/Leica lens names often had some connection to the optical design. For example, the "Hektor design" was always 3 groups totalling 4-6 elements. Throughout the focal-length range 28/50/73/125/135. Elmars were usually 4-element Tessar-type designs. And coincidentally, the first three Summicrons 50/35/90 were double-gauss arrangements - ELCAN's designer Dr. Walter Mandler was an expert in the twiddling of DGs and wrote his graduate thesis on them. Presumably this had something to do with the era of slow manual calculations before digital computers arrived. One could take the existing and already-calculated 50mm "Hektor" design, and just modify the math a bit to get a 73 "Hektor," or a 28 "Hektor", or a 125mm. It was with the introduction of the name Elmarit (nearly coincident with the first lens-design software) around 1960 that the modern meaning of name-equals-max-aperture became the standard (mostly). By 1980, we get the new, compact 90mm f/2.0. It is no longer a double-gauss - it is a tele-photo much smaller and lighter than the DG 90 Summicrons. As a telephoto, it perhaps should have been named a "Tele-Something-or-other" in keeping with the Tele-Elmarits and Tele-Elmars - but Leitz just decided to quit using the "Tele-" prefix altogether. From that point on, a Summicron was an f/2.0 lens, and any f/2.0 lens was a Summicron, pure and simple. But..... The Telyt name was still used for lenses with apertures from f/2.8 to f/6.8, and a broad variety of internal optical arrangements, from 2 elements (400 f/6.8 Telyt-R) to 12 (400mm f/2.8 APO-Telyt-R), telephoto and non-telephoto - so long as they were long focal lengths. Figure that one out. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 12, 2019 Share #13 Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, adan said: Mounts: LTM (Leica thread mount) or screw-mount or M39 mount. The original mount Leica used between 1931 and 1960. For rangefinder cameras. LTM lenses can be adapted with a simple 1mm ring to work on M cameras (right up to today's) - but M-mount lenses cannot be adapted to LTM cameras. Canon and several others made use of the M39 mount as well. M-Mount - the four-flange bayonet introduced in 1954 and still used today on the M cameras. The original compact-Leica "CL" for film used the M mount, but its kit-lenses (40mm and 90mm), while fitting and functioning, are slightly different mechanically and designated "-C." R-mount - the three-flange bayonet used for Leica's film SLR system 1964-2007. These come in several "flavors" that have to do with the communication between lens and camera (analog levers and cams - and later electrical contacts). Original was 2-cam. Upgrade about 1968 was to 3-cam. Downgraded or simplified in the 1980s for the normal kit lens 50 Summicron to save money and listed as "R-Only" (= 1 cam). In the 1990s, silicon chips with electric contacts were added - these are called ROM lenses (for their read-only-memory chips). R-mount lenses of most types can be adapted to TL, SL or M cameras these days, as well as Canon, Sony, Fuji (and with some work Nikon) mounts. TL-mount - A mount for the cropped or APS or "half-frame" digital sensor (24mm x 16mm) - e.g. the Leica T for which it is named, but also the CL digital camera. SL-mount - interchangeable with the TL mount (usually) but covers a full 24x36mm sensor. Thus SL lenses are more valuable and costlier. TL lenses on an SL camera will not allow full use of the sensor, but otherwise work normally. SL lenses can definitely be used on TL cameras. but will be cropped to a smaller image area. S-mount - the mount for the Leica S medium-format camera series Lens names not already covered: Anastigmat and Elmax- 50mm f/3.5 lenses for the first year of Leica production 1924-25 - replaced by first 50mm Elmar f/3.5 Summar - Leica's first f/2 lens - a 50mm Summitar - a revised 50mm f/2, preceding the first Summicron Summarit - a name used four times for different things. Originally, the 50mm f/1.5 in LTM or M mount, that preceded the 50mm Summiluxes, post-WW2 though the 1950s. Name recycled in the 1990s for a fixed 40mm f/2.4 lens on a compact film P&S camera (Leica Minilux). Now used for a budget line of f/2.4 (originally f/2.5) M-mount lenses of lengths 35, 50, 75 and 90mm, and for the far-from-budget f/2.4 lenses for the medium-format S-Mount. (No-one says Leica has been perfectly consistent in lens naming over the decades ). Xenon - pre-1950 name for the Summarit 50 f/1.5 - Schneider trademark for this Schneider-designed lens. Summaron - 28mm or 35mm M-mount and LTM wide-angle lenses of the 1950s, with apertures from f/5.6 to f/2.8. 28mm f/5.6 Summaron recently revived for "retro" pictures. Summarex - an 85mm f/1.5 lens, 1943-1960 Elmar - a lens of f/3.5 or slower (although there were also two 50mm f/2.8 Elmars) - the "Elmarit" name for f/2.8 was not introduced until 1960 Elcan or ELCAN - various lenses made strictly for Cold War military use by Ernst Leitz Canada in Ontario - 50, 66, 75, 180mm focal lengths (at least). in M- or R-mount. The 180 was eventually release to the public as the 180 APO-Telyt f/3.4, Leica's first APO-designated lens. Thambar - a 90mm f/2.2 soft-focus portrait lens in LTM mount - recently revived as a "retro" design in M-Mount. Name from the Greek word thambos, meaning "amazement" or "wonder." Tele- - as a prefix, for three M lenses of 90 or 135mm, that had tele-photo construction - lenses very compact for their nominal focal lengths. e.g. 90mm Tele-Elmarit f/2.8 or 135 Tele-Elmar f/4. And one rare early 180mm Tele-Elmarit f/2.8 for the Visoflex viewing device. Telyt - used for long lenses, 135, 180, 250, 280......800mm. Sometimes APO-Telyt. Only for the SLR "R-mount" cameras, except for the current M-mount 135mm APO-Telyt Super-Angulon - three specific 21mm super-wide-angles for M or R mount, 1960-ish to 1980, designed by Schneider-Kreuznach, not Leitz. And one 28mm perspective-adjusting lens in R-Mount. Super-Angulon is a Schneider trademark. Hologon - Zeiss trademark for a 15mm ultra-wide-angle lens, of which a few were made in M-mount ("für Leica") around 1968. Velostigmat - non-Leica lenses contracted out to Wollensak by Leitz New York, while Leica lenses were unobtainable during and after WW2. In LTM-mount. Vario- - as a prefix = zoom lenses Put them all together and one gets, for example, Vario-Elmarit-SL-ASPH 24-90 f/2.8-f/4. Translated = Vario (zoom-lens) -Elmarit (f/2.8 at least at one focal length) -SL (for SL-mount cameras) -ASPH (with at least one aspheric element). Hello Andy, A few small additions to your very nice list: The original "Leicaflex" mount for the original Leicaflex is also a single cam. But it is a different cam than the "R" cam which was later used in combination with the 2 other cams. In addition the "R" cam is used alone on some lenses for the later "R" cameras. This "R" cam is also sometimes called the "third cam". A 90mm, F1, Elcan lens was also made during the 1970's. "Telyt" is also used on a number of "Visoflex" compatible lenses including various 200mm, 280mm, 400mm, 560mm lenses of various apertures as well as for the 800mm, F 6.3 Telyt-S. The "S" is for "Special". Some of these lenses are available in an "R" version, like the 500mm, F8 which is only available for Leicaflex/Leica R cameras. Some of the Telyt lenses are in the Apo-Telyt category. Best Regards, Michael Edited December 12, 2019 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2019 Share #14 Posted December 22, 2019 And one addition: There are also V-mount lenses, which are M type-mount ones with a longer register distance -AKA shorter barrel- to accommodate the Visoflex optical housings. E.g. Telyt-V 400/6.8. Confusingly, some of these lenses were also made in an R mount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2019 Share #15 Posted December 22, 2019 I'm sure the OP knows all about opening Pandora's box now... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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