The Sigma 45mm F2.8 DG DN Contemporary - SL users should take a look

[caissa]

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They have so many lenses, so they have probably a todo list. Starting with the best sellers ....    The 4/500 is probably not so popular, regarding the price. (Maybe even less popular than the 60-600, 120-300, 100-400 and 150-600.)

They also add lenses that were not on the first roadmap (the 45, 14-24, 1.2/35 and lately the 2.8/24-70)

Edited December 12, 2019 by caissa

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, michali said:

Gordon- there are quite a few of us here who are gagging for a telephoto lens in L mount in the 400mm to 600mm range. Unfortunately I don't see it coming, there's nothing in their future lens line up. Also according to the chart on the Sigma website the L mount conversion service is not available for any of the long tele or zoom lenses, see table #2 in the link below:

Lenses eligible for Mount Conversion Service  unless there's an update somewhere else that the 600mm lens is eligible for L mount conversion?

Best

Mike

 

That table is for users to get lenses converted to L-mount, not necessarily what Sigma intends to do itself: i.e. either produce a version of an existing lens in L-mount, or produce a totally new product. Though I guess it's still an indication of Sigma's priorities.

Just speculating, but perhaps there are structural strength/rigidity issues with a simple plug-in mount replacement on the longer lenses - perhaps the L-mount needs to be better integrated into the lens body during manufacture. They don't want a spate of complaints of lenses falling off the mount. That might be why Sigma also shows no sign of selling their own L-mount versions: too much redesign needed.

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

13 hours ago, michali said:

Gordon- there are quite a few of us here who are gagging for a telephoto lens in L mount in the 400mm to 600mm range. Unfortunately I don't see it coming, there's nothing in their future lens line up. Also according to the chart on the Sigma website the L mount conversion service is not available for any of the long tele or zoom lenses, see table #2 in the link below:

Lenses eligible for Mount Conversion Service  unless there's an update somewhere else that the 600mm lens is eligible for L mount conversion?

Best

Mike

 

I suspect there's enough issues converting a PDAF lens to a CDAF one that they are somewhat limiting that service. *If* they made a conversion available for the long primes, people might expect native AF speeds and Sigma would get a lot of flack as the conversions aren't as quick a the lenses designed for L mount. If I've got a 500 prime then I'm shooting wildlife or sports and I'll want that sucker to lock on at a rapid rate.

Or maybe a new version is coming.  That's be nice....

When I can I'm going to hit up my local dealer to play with some of their Sigma lenses in their carpark with the SL2 and S1R, using the MC21. I tried the 60-600 early one, for a few minutes and thought it was very slow to AF. Would like to try now after a couple of firmware updates and also some other lenses. Probably won't be before Christmas though. Until then the Z7 with Nikon's 200-500 is doing just fine for me.

Gordon

[michali]

18 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I suspect there's enough issues converting a PDAF lens to a CDAF one that they are somewhat limiting that service. *If* they made a conversion available for the long primes, people might expect native AF speeds and Sigma would get a lot of flack as the conversions aren't as quick a the lenses designed for L mount. If I've got a 500 prime then I'm shooting wildlife or sports and I'll want that sucker to lock on at a rapid rate.

Or maybe a new version is coming.  That's be nice....

When I can I'm going to hit up my local dealer to play with some of their Sigma lenses in their carpark with the SL2 and S1R, using the MC21. I tried the 60-600 early one, for a few minutes and thought it was very slow to AF. Would like to try now after a couple of firmware updates and also some other lenses. Probably won't be before Christmas though. Until then the Z7 with Nikon's 200-500 is doing just fine for me.

Gordon

Below is a summary of my user experience with the Novoflex & MC-21 adapters which I posted a couple of weeks ago -I have both adapters. I would think that it shouldn't be that much different on the SL2 & Sigma lenses. I'll try these out again on the SL2 when my camera arrives in about 10 days or so. The MC-21 doesn't work on the SL601, I read somewhere that it does however work on the SL2.

 

Here's my subjective user experience on the MC-21 & Novoflex adapters on the S1R & SL 601 with the Canon 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM lens. I don't think it will be much different on the SL2.

On the S1R with the Sigma MC-21 adapter, AF works well & locks on reasonably quickly (my score= 9 out of 10). It slows down a little with the Canon 1.4X III converter (my score= 8 out of 10) IQ remains very good.  Even with the Canon 2X III converter IQ remains good, however AF is noticeably slower (my score= 7 out of 10).

On the SL I use the Novoflex EF-SL adapter. AF works OK, (my score= 8 out of 10), not as good as on the S1R,  it hunts and sometimes needs a little help by turning the focusing ring. AF slows down substantially when you throw in the tele-converters. Again, AF performance is not as good as on the S1R.

Overall on the S1R you should be pleased with the Canon's performance, I don't think you can go wrong.

Personally I'm not really that bothered about AF, sometimes it can be more frustrating, but it's nice to have. I've always used MF lenses, so for me it's more about the ability to get the close up shot when I need it. Leica don't offer anything comparable, not even a tele converter for the VE90-280mm L lens 😡. 

I've purchased a CL which I use a 1.5x  tele-converter with the VE90-280mm L lens mounted, which gives me 420mm on the long end. IQ is excellent and AF performance is good. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by michali

[caissa]

In reply to Flashgordon

The 150-600 is probably more a lens for the bird photographer (probably better in the more expensive sports version).

I wonder what would be the difference between a lens for CDAF vs PDAF  (as all cameras use CDAF for the fine tuning ?!). Is there a difference at all ?  Or is it only in the motors that are used (how easy they can invert direction) ?

Instead of a faster lens I would rather like to get a "distance limiter" inside the camera. Not only close range and remote range, but with the possibility to set a pair of customized limits (from 11.5m minimum to 14.5m maximum e.g.)  With the possibility to set the limits in the viewfinder. And a button to make the lens go to the specified limit.   Sounds not like rocket science ...   (The button would not need to be on the lens, on the camera would be fine).  This should speed up focusing considerably.

Edited December 12, 2019 by caissa

[SrMi]

27 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I suspect there's enough issues converting a PDAF lens to a CDAF one that they are somewhat limiting that service. 

<snip>

Why do you think that a PDAF lens needs converting? All OSPDAF cameras use CDAF at some point as well. The only additional work is needed for DFD (additional lens data needed).

[Guest]

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On 12/11/2019 at 1:25 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Unlike say, Canon, who currently have HUGE lenses, apart from the 70-200, with almost no other native options.

With regards to Canon, Canon offers the excellent native 35mm f1.8 lens (305g) which I am currently using pretty much all day long in LA.  

It has IS (5 stops) and the minimum focusing distance is 17cm.  Leica has nothing that comes even close. 

And the Canon body is in itself already about 300g lighter than the Leica SL.  

It is THE reason that I initially invested into the Canon EOS R system which in the meanwhile has more or less taken over from the Leica SL.  

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1433714-REG/canon_rf_35mm_f_1_8_is.html

Edited December 13, 2019 by Guest

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 12/13/2019 at 7:21 AM, SrMi said:

Why do you think that a PDAF lens needs converting? All OSPDAF cameras use CDAF at some point as well. The only additional work is needed for DFD (additional lens data needed).

As far as I'm aware, due to different focus motor types some lenses designed purely for PDAF don't always do well as CDAF lenses. Some focus motors aren't good at changing direction quickly, which CDAF requires. 

Gordon

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

As far as I'm aware, due to different focus motor types some lenses designed purely for PDAF don't always do well as CDAF lenses. Some focus motors aren't good at changing direction quickly, which CDAF requires. 

Gordon

Interesting, I have not heard that. My point is that all cameras either combine a last CDAF step with PDAF (Sony) or have an exclusive CDAF mode (Nikon). Therefore, I would assume that all lenses would need to work well in CDAF mode as well.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 12/15/2019 at 2:30 AM, SrMi said:

Interesting, I have not heard that. My point is that all cameras either combine a last CDAF step with PDAF (Sony) or have an exclusive CDAF mode (Nikon). Therefore, I would assume that all lenses would need to work well in CDAF mode as well.

The original Sonys were CDAF only, so they were made for CDAF. PDAF came along and sped things up. OTOH if you get some older DSLR lenses and put them on an original Sony A7, the focus is really slow. They weren’t designed to work with the way CDAF moves forward and backward to determine the focus point. All the newer lenses have been designed with Canons dual sensor AF in mind for video so they are optimised for CDAF anyway.

Sigmas older Art lenses were designed for DSLR’s and compatibility with newer Sony’s (ie: released after the A7R2). I assume they’re fine for all PDAF and dual focus systems, but maybe less so for exclusively CDAF systems. All the Art lenses I have (5 of them) focus slower on the S1R with the original Sigma adaptor than they do on a Sony with a metabones adptor by a noticable margin. Yet the 14-24 Sigma, which is native, focus just as quickly as anything in single shot mode.

I have seen this information several times, around when the original metabones for the A7 came out and it seems logical to me. But I’m no engineer.

Gordon

[JamesBarry]

14 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The original Sonys were CDAF only, so they were made for CDAF. PDAF came along and sped things up. OTOH if you get some older DSLR lenses and put them on an original Sony A7, the focus is really slow. They weren’t designed to work with the way CDAF moves forward and backward to determine the focus point. All the newer lenses have been designed with Canons dual sensor AF in mind for video so they are optimised for CDAF anyway.

Sigmas older Art lenses were designed for DSLR’s and compatibility with newer Sony’s (ie: released after the A7R2). I assume they’re fine for all PDAF and dual focus systems, but maybe less so for exclusively CDAF systems. All the Art lenses I have (5 of them) focus slower on the S1R with the original Sigma adaptor than they do on a Sony with a metabones adptor by a noticable margin. Yet the 14-24 Sigma, which is native, focus just as quickly as anything in single shot mode.

I have seen this information several times, around when the original metabones for the A7 came out and it seems logical to me. But I’m no engineer.

Gordon

Gordon,

How would you rate the 14-24 L mount against the Sigma 12-24 Art f/4 which I own and use with SL/adaptor for interiors?  I'm shooting at f/8-11 most of the time

Thanks

James

 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

9 hours ago, JamesBarry said:

Gordon,

How would you rate the 14-24 L mount against the Sigma 12-24 Art f/4 which I own and use with SL/adaptor for interiors?  I'm shooting at f/8-11 most of the time

Thanks

James

 

•  

James,

I still have the Art 12-24 in EF mount.

The 14-24 is sharper, especially wide open and in the corners but has too much distortion for an architecture lens. I haven’t seen a profile for it either. It’s slightly moustache too which is an issue for critical applications. At f8 there’s little optical difference. So keep the 12-24. Too bad it’s such a beast. I am keeping mine for the same reasons. I had real issues with it on the SL with the Metabones adaptor but it appears better after a firmware update and is really good on the SL2/S1R with the Sigma adaptor.

[JamesBarry]

11 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

James,

I still have the Art 12-24 in EF mount.

The 14-24 is sharper, especially wide open and in the corners but has too much distortion for an architecture lens. I haven’t seen a profile for it either. It’s slightly moustache too which is an issue for critical applications. At f8 there’s little optical difference. So keep the 12-24. Too bad it’s such a beast. I am keeping mine for the same reasons. I had real issues with it on the SL with the Metabones adaptor but it appears better after a firmware update and is really good on the SL2/S1R with the Sigma adaptor.

Perfect, all I need to know.  Thanks

[helged]

Possibly/likely linked here or somewhere else, but this is interesting nevertheless:

"Mr. Yamaki also said that they will produce a line of lenses that are smaller in size to go with the FP smaller form factor:

There are two range of lens being made for the L mount cameras, the normal photographic range that will be larger and focus more on IQ like the ART range but they are also working on a second smaller range like the 45mm f2.8 Contemporary which is great news and I feel there’s room for both as people have different needs."

From https://www.diyphotography.net/sigma-ceo-we-will-make-smaller-lenses-but-bigger-cameras/

[johnbuckley]

If Sigma comes out with a line of L-Mount lenses like the 45mm 2.8 Contemporary -- say, 24mm + 35mm -- I'll buy them. The SL 35mm is as close to a perfect lens as you can get. But walking around town with the SL2 and the 45 Sigma -- which I think is a very pleasing lens -- feels very much like carrying around an M. People on the forum believe Leica will never do this, but I sure wish, as the SL becomes the hit camera line that evidence suggests it is becoming... a new real flagship for the Leica brand... they build out an Elmarit line of small SL lenses...

[LocalHero1953]

It's that prospect of more Sigma fp lenses that keeps me from getting the 45mm. Most of the time I use the fp for video and frankly would rather use my 35, 50 or 75 M lenses for that purpose - I don't need AF for video. But I'd like a small native AF lens for the occasions I use the fp for stills. If I got the 45mm now, despite its performance, I think I'd wish I'd held on for a 35mm or 28mm (or wider).

And such a lens would be a nice prime for the SL as well ......... if I wasn't also tempted by the (rather larger) Summicron-SL 35!

Edited December 19, 2019 by LocalHero1953

[chris_tribble]

Well - I think I've found my standard, walk around lens for the SL2.  Got mine yesterday, and after a certain amount of fiddling about, got it working like I want it to (notably selecting AFS Focus Mode rather than "Intelligent "F"), and I'm VERY pleased.  I was initially concerned about performance fully open, but having read the excellent article about Sigma's lens design here https://www.sigma-sein.com/en/ohsone/45mm-f2-8-dg-dn-contemporary/ I started to work out what was going on, and today worked mostly at f5.6.  I also took advantage of the lovely aperture ring and used that with the SL2 in AE mode.  Results?  

1. I was very pleased with colour and sharpness over the image (my default walk about lens is usually the M 28 or 35 Summicron asph)
2. I was delighted by the close focus performance - way beyond what I was expecting
3. Manual focus + enlargement work REALLY well (see the picture of clover below)
4. I really like the size, weight and handling on the SL2
5. I'm growing  to respect the SL2 more and more and highly appreciate the logic of the camera (and IBIS!)

I've posted a set on Flickr  (https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPofBLm) and give below some examples with 100% crops.

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Edited July 12, 2020 by chris_tribble

[michali]

4 hours ago, chris_tribble said:

Well - I think I've found my standard, walk around lens for the SL2.  Got mine yesterday, and after a certain amount of fiddling about, got it working like I want it to (notably selecting AFS Focus Mode rather than "Intelligent "F"), and I'm VERY pleased.  I was initially concerned about performance fully open, but having read the excellent article about Sigma's lens design here https://www.sigma-sein.com/en/ohsone/45mm-f2-8-dg-dn-contemporary/ I started to work out what was going on, and today worked mostly at f5.6.  I also took advantage of the lovely aperture ring and used that with the SL2 in AE mode.  Results?  

1. I was very pleased with colour and sharpness over the image (my default walk about lens is usually the M 28 or 35 Summicron asph)
2. I was delighted by the close focus performance - way beyond what I was expecting
3. Manual focus + enlargement work REALLY well (see the picture of clover below)
4. I really like the size, weight and handling on the SL2
5. I'm growing  to respect the SL2 more and more and highly appreciate the logic of the camera (and IBIS!)

I've posted a set on Flickr  (https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPofBLm) and give below some examples with 100% crops.

 

Wonderful Chris, great to see that you're gelling with the SL2. Fully agree with you, I love everything about the Sigma 45mm f2.8 it's a little gem. The aperture ring is a huge plus & added bonus!

Best,

Mike

 

[meerec]

For me it’s a perfect lens for Zoom and WebEx video calls, I use it always and very often. Practically it was the only reason I bought it. It has the perfect focal length for this purpose, at 2.8 blurs the background adequately so I don’t need to use a virtual background and green screen, and works in the video mode good enough in the AFC mode with face recognition. The small size and weight make it very easy to use for video and for Zoom calls. 

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Look here: Leica L-Mount

[chris_tribble]

I'm continuing to discover the delights of this lens.  I've now got the SL2 settings better sorted out so use Program as my default setting with the lens on AF.  This allows for a quick response to most circumstances, with adjustments (ISO, EV compensation) being easily and logically made.  In more specialist situations, I have the option of the Aperture dial on the camera - which automatically sets the SL2 to A mode.  Where there's a need for finer control, I can switch to Manual focus (with auto enlargment ensuring precise focus point selection - see the rowan berries below).  For general walking around purposes I'm finding this setup works really well.

Some trivial examples from a walk this morning below:

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Edited July 16, 2020 by chris_tribble