M10 ‘non Leica’ battery

[farnz]

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19 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Luigi has been supplying little battery cases to go on the strap since the M8...

Since the Digilux 2 actually, Jaap. I use a honey-coloured one and it's still in excellent condition after all this time.

Pete.

[rramesh]

Newer batteries have an in-built chip in that detects voltage, and some equipment vendors can use this to disable the use of 3rd party batteries. Funky things like an inability to display battery levels etc.

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[magixaxeman]

The cost of the Leica battery is approx 1.5% of the cost of the camera body, that's relatively cheap in my book and no, I'm not rich, I have to scrimp and scrape to buy any camera gear as my only income is my disability benefits. Luckily since my brother gifted me my Leica & I got a 90mm, 50mm & 35mm lenses I haven't had the urge to buy anything else

[Anbaric]

On 11/30/2019 at 9:33 PM, lucerne said:

Unfortunately Steve, there are no alternative batteries SCL-5 available for the M10.   This question has been asked a few times.   We are at the mercy of Leica. I collected a few previously used,  via Ebay U.K..  😖

'At the mercy' is right. Just ask a Digital Modul R owner. Leica is the sole supplier of a consumable item, the total number in circulation will never be that large, and they won't make it for ever. This, more than anything else, may determine the practical lifespan of these cameras. For mass market cameras, especially when several in a range use the same battery, there are usually multiple third party alternatives. Batteries for early dSLRs like the Nikon D100 from 2002 are still readily available, and probably will be for a long time. The DMR, which came out a few years later, has been a battery orphan for well over a decade. Hopefully the M bodies, as more mainstream products, will be supported for longer.

[lucerne]

1 minute ago, Anbaric said:

'At the mercy' is right. Just ask a Digital Modul R owner. Leica is the sole supplier of a consumable item, the total number in circulation will never be that large, and they won't make it for ever. This, more than anything else, may determine the practical lifespan of these cameras. For mass market cameras, especially when several in a range use the same battery, there are usually multiple third party alternatives. Batteries for early dSLRs like the Nikon D100 from 2002 are still readily available, and probably will be for a long time. The DMR, which came out a few years later, has been a battery orphan for well over a decade. Hopefully the M bodies, as more mainstream products, will be supported for longer.

Agreed.  The distribution and pricing of Leica accessories in the UK is worrying me. I'm just about to upgrade to the M10p and found that the availability of second hand bodies has been restricted by the very limited distribution in the UK.  Where will replacement batteries come from?   Are Leica aware of the effects of UK leaving the EU?  A different tax regime.  Is Leica forcing us to buy only "new" items.  The market is being restricted.  

Very worrying.

 

 

[jaapv]

18 hours ago, Anbaric said:

'At the mercy' is right. Just ask a Digital Modul R owner. Leica is the sole supplier of a consumable item, the total number in circulation will never be that large, and they won't make it for ever. This, more than anything else, may determine the practical lifespan of these cameras. For mass market cameras, especially when several in a range use the same battery, there are usually multiple third party alternatives. Batteries for early dSLRs like the Nikon D100 from 2002 are still readily available, and probably will be for a long time. The DMR, which came out a few years later, has been a battery orphan for well over a decade. Hopefully the M bodies, as more mainstream products, will be supported for longer.

Leica DID provide the contact with a battery reconditioning company for the DMR batteries. 

[Anbaric]

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It would be nice, though, if Leica kept a stock of accessories and spares for some reasonable number of years after a major product has been discontinued. It's not as if their gear is cheap or disposable. Back in the 50s, you could get your 25 year old camera upgraded to the latest specs and your grandchildren might still be using it today. But if you acquired the 35/2 ASPH v1 back in 2016, just before it was discontinued, you should probably have picked up a couple of spare hood caps, because you wouldn't be able to find original replacements a couple of years later, let alone get the sensor fixed on the M9 you bought new in 2012 that is now a beautifully engineered paperweight. As with the MDR battery, supporting their products has been left to third parties (and to be fair, that guy who 3D prints those caps on ebay does a better job than Leica - the replacement actually stays on the hood!).

[jaapv]

Actually, apart from some things that are unavailable by now, like LCD screens for the M8.2 (which gave out to early due to an unfortunate chain of events)  and I think sensors, Leica still services the M8, which dates back to 2006. The problem is, of course, that repairs tend to get uneconomical on major items quite quickly for digital cameras, which makes the long-term stocking of some parts senseless. I doubt that anybody would spend 2000$ today to have an M8 sensor replaced, for instance. That money buys two mint ones for replacement.

[romualdo]

On 3/31/2021 at 9:10 AM, Anbaric said:

As with the MDR battery, supporting their products has been left to third parties (and to be fair, that guy who 3D prints those caps on ebay does a better job than Leica - the replacement actually stays on the hood!).

I definitely second that - the replacement cap appears to grip the hood much more effectively making it more difficult to "knock off"

[Helge]

Maybe it makes sense to look at the topic with a more industrial and technical background.

A Lithium battery is normally not a standardized battery, one of the major advantages of this battery type is the (however somehow limited) freedom in adjusting it’s shape to the existing space, that allows maximum capacity. The downside of this freedom however ist the absence of interchangeability with other appliances. Keeping this in mind, one of the major reasons for paying a lot more for a Leica battery in comparison to a mass production battery should be clear. It requires a special housing, which requires a unique (and expensive) tooling and since it is sold in a lot lower quantities more costs for stock and handling.

Another reason for a unique design has been stated several times, the inability to use other (3rd party) batteries reduces the risk of warranty issues.

Last but not least you pay for sure for the brand name.

[lct]

Last but not least Leica earn more money with them . Sounds like the main if not only reason to me. All my non Leica cameras have been working with replacement batteries for twenty years. Same for my Digilux 1 and digital CL by the way. 

[rramesh]

Vendors specify what batteries they need - power rating, form factor etc. and a contract manufacturer make them to order in batches and order volumes. In the case of the M10x these batteries are made by Varta. Due to limited volumes, prices are high.

It's rather unfortunate that consumer companies are unable to standardise on batteries or adapt their products to use more standard batteries available.

[Helge]

Standardization is not the purpose of using Lithium batteries, the purpose is explicitly to custom design a battery that maxes out the available space for maximum capacity. Standardization would neglect that advantage completely.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Helge