SL or M-D. The Agony Of Choice . . .

[Hero To Zero]

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Hoping I've posted this in the correct forum.

Gooday everyone and I'm looking to pick the collective mind of the Leica Forum - whether to buy into the SL (mk1) or M-D system. Firstly though, a short back story.

I'm not a newcomer to the Leica Forum, or Leica for that matter.

Around 4 years ago and for the 15 or so preceding that, I was an enthusiastic street photographer, shooting Leica M's exclusively (M2, CL (x3), M5, M6, M8 (x2), M-E). Indeed at the time, I produced a blog concerning street photography, and even tested several Leica's - on one occasion being invited to Leica Mayfair (along with 5 others), to appraise a prototype version of the SL.

Four years ago however, I made the decision to alter my entire life beyond recognition, embarking on a new path, ultimately leading back to the forum and this post.

Now with some cash to burn, I'm ready to dabble in still-images again, on a 'hobby' basis, though some pictures will more than likely be included in various video projects I am and will be working on.

So the question - Leica SL (mk1) or Leica M-D?

Initially I was drawn to the M-D, having previously tested the M60 for an article (and prophesying an inevitable production model -though Leica denied this at the time ). I particularly enjoyed the camera's immediate similarity and experience to shooting film - one which became comfortable, very quickly.

Having shot a good selection of M's, the overriding factor was of course, 'that' viewfinder.

But then I was swayed by the Fujifilm GFX50R, especially for it's size and form factor, the sensor and resolution and of course, the price.

However, it wasn't long before I uncovered tales of haphazard AF, though I am mainly an MF guy. Sadly, I then read that MF with this camera is frequently difficult to nail, so the GFX50R fell by the wayside.

Then I stumbled across a video by Steve Huff, where he waxed lyrical about the SL's continuing relevance 4 years after it's launch, and especially how the camera makes even more sense with M lenses and adapter attached.

I thought back to my time at the SL's prototype viewing and distinctly remember (bearing in mind I was a staunch M supporter), that the camera whilst not overly heavy, was a real brick. Further, the fact it had an EVF, with no optical viewfinder option, left me feeling somewhat cold and indifferent.

However, with time and age comes wisdom as they say and I now find myself drawn to the SL (it's a bit of a looker actually). Strangely, the ability to instantly see what you've shot, no longer appears abhorrent (to me), though I can't help but be swayed by the simplicity of the M-D. However, Wi-Fi transfer to a phone would be very useful, especially when filming productions 'in the field'. Additionally, the much praised size and clarity of the EVF viewfinder, has seriously brought into question my stubborn 'love' for the rangefinder. Ooh that rangefinder . . .

The photography I'm looking to shoot will be landscape, slow moving subjects, anything that catches my eye 'anywhere' and, I imagine, the occasional bit of 'street'. Lightness and portability isn't an issue - I'm a strong lad who always eats his greens !

Finally, the initial budget is between £4,000 - £4,500 (pounds sterling). I'm not too enamored of investing in a make and system I have no experience of (i.e Sony, Nikon etc) and I very very much look forward to reading any comments, suggestions and ideas you may have.

Cheers,

P.S. An M10-P might be interesting?

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Hero To Zero

[benqui]

Two totally different cameras with two totally different concepts. Do you still have M-lenses? If you really need a rangefinder, then go for the M-D. Maybe you should rent both for a weekend and decide which one you like more. 

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[Hero To Zero]

Hi Benqui and thank you. Unfortunately I have no stills photography equipment of any kind left now. In fact, I haven't shot a single still image for 4 years, except smartphone snaps. Would be starting from scratch and as you suggest, renting or at least quickly trying out both systems in a shop, would be best.

[Hero To Zero]

11 minutes ago, benqui said:

Two totally different cameras with two totally different concepts. Do you still have M-lenses? If you really need a rangefinder, then go for the M-D. Maybe you should rent both for a weekend and decide which one you like more. 

Hi Benqui and thank you. Unfortunately I have no stills photography equipment of any kind left now. In fact, I haven't shot a single still image for 4 years, except smartphone snaps. Would be starting from scratch and as you suggest, renting or at least quickly trying out both systems in a shop, would be best.

[LocalHero1953]

Over the years I have tried and failed to see the attractions of the MD and M60, so treat my comments accordingly. The MD is (IMO) for those who enjoy the 'Leica experience' and are drawn to the trad film rangefinder experience, and don't mind tying one leg up while they do it. In other words, it's about the kit and the philosophy (such comments do not apply to the M240/M10 which use the format to create a light, compact but still practical device).

The SL is a shameless, no-holds-barred device for helping you take the best photographs with modern technology in as wide a range of scenarios as possible, with no backward glances to how we used to do things. 

If you want the experience, get the MD. If you want to take photographs, get the SL.

[Hero To Zero]

12 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Over the years I have tried and failed to see the attractions of the MD and M60, so treat my comments accordingly. The MD is (IMO) for those who enjoy the 'Leica experience' and are drawn to the trad film rangefinder experience, and don't mind tying one leg up while they do it. In other words, it's about the kit and the philosophy (such comments do not apply to the M240/M10 which use the format to create a light, compact but still practical device).

The SL is a shameless, no-holds-barred device for helping you take the best photographs with modern technology in as wide a range of scenarios as possible, with no backward glances to how we used to do things. 

If you want the experience, get the MD. If you want to take photographs, get the SL.

Thanks for the reply LocalHero.

I think you've summed up what the real meat of the matter is - do I want to be all sentimental and relive 'the good old days', or just get on and take pictures with a camera that will do it all (even a bit of video now and again) - and thinking about it, the latter wins hands down.

Cheers, 

Edited November 30, 2019 by Hero To Zero

[anickpick]

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If the M-D offers you all that you want to do with your photography, go for it. For what it can do, it's without peers.

The SL is much more versatile at the expense of size and weight. 

Edited November 30, 2019 by anickpick

[snooper]

I would rush on a Q2. Used with manual focus, you are very close to the M experience, using the EVF and autofocus, you are not far from the SL.

Fantastic camera for the everyday photography... Give yourself 1 or two years to decide if you want to go for the M or the SL, or stay happy with your Q2... 

[Hero To Zero]

21 hours ago, snooper said:

I would rush on a Q2. Used with manual focus, you are very close to the M experience, using the EVF and autofocus, you are not far from the SL.

Fantastic camera for the everyday photography... Give yourself 1 or two years to decide if you want to go for the M or the SL, or stay happy with your Q2... 

I hadn't considered the Q2, until now. Regarded it (Q1) as a bit too Point And Shooty, Snooper - but maybe there's more to the Q2 (and Q1 for that matter)? 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Hero To Zero

[a.noctilux]

Hello Hero,

I'm not answering your question, but just some (new) ideas.

Considering your £4,500 budget, you have more choices than the M-D or SL .

I'd see things as kit in near future.

With each of the two choices, you may have only one lens.

If it's enough, each one can do (I'd go to M-D as I like it's concept and use one for  couple of years), to use it a while, change if need be.

 

If you need a larger kit, why not try one of the cheaper M240 family (M240/262) with a couple of lenses.

[harryzet]

who is steve huff? do you know him? if not, why do you trust him? he is just a guy who puts his opinion on youtube.

[snooper]

40 minutes ago, Hero To Zero said:

Regarded it (Q1) as a bit too Point And Shooty, Snooper - but maybe there's more to the Q2 (and Q1 for that matter)? 

There is much more under the hood than it seems. You might want to give it a try, manual focus, Aperture priority mode, Auto ISO and use it as much as you can @ f:1.7. You'll love it.

Edited December 1, 2019 by snooper

[Hero To Zero]

23 hours ago, snooper said:

There is much more under the hood than it seems. You might want to give it a try, manual focus, Aperture priority mode, Auto ISO and use it as much as you can @ f:1.7. You'll love it.

Well that shows I dismissed the Q series without knowing anything about it. A 28mm manual focus f1.7 lens, sounds very intriguing AND at a fraction of the cost of an M. Cheers for that. ☺ 

[Hero To Zero]

23 hours ago, harryzet said:

who is steve huff? do you know him? if not, why do you trust him? he is just a guy who puts his opinion on youtube.

I thought Steve Huff was quite well known and respected in Leica circles and I must say he gave a convincing argument for the SL but yes, I should take all advice at face value I suppose. 

[IkarusJohn]

Either is a good choice.  I have the SL, had the M60 (couldn’t justify the expense) and now have the M10-D. 

The SL is all singing, all dancing - video, auto-focus, weathersealed, universal Leica platform.  You can basically use any Leica lens on it, with an adapter.  I like mine, but it can be a bit much at times.

When I wander out with my M10-D, it’s a real pleasure.  I tend to leave ISO at 100, I’m happy with Auto White Balance, and I have it on Aperture priority, with EC at -2/3.  Just thinking about aperture, focus and composition is a relief - photography as I learned it, and the feel in the hand is superb.  Unlike Paul above, I don’t see the M10-D as being crippled or disabled or anything like that - I see it as having a lot of crap I don’t want or need removed, and I dislike the look of the rather cheap and nasty LCD on the back.  I tolerate it on the Monochrom.

What lens would you choose (tight budget, if it includes a Leica lens, but why wouldn’t you?) - in your shoes, I’d look for a good 28mm as a base for my system.

[Hero To Zero]

Well it's taken a while but I finally settled on the M-D, with an Elmarit 28 2.8 v3 for starters.

The camera I always promised myself, when and if I was ever (again) in the position to get one. 😊 

Cheers to all for your very helpful advice. 

[plaidshirts]

On 11/29/2019 at 1:14 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

Over the years I have tried and failed to see the attractions of the MD and M60, so treat my comments accordingly. The MD is (IMO) for those who enjoy the 'Leica experience' and are drawn to the trad film rangefinder experience, and don't mind tying one leg up while they do it. In other words, it's about the kit and the philosophy (such comments do not apply to the M240/M10 which use the format to create a light, compact but still practical device).

The SL is a shameless, no-holds-barred device for helping you take the best photographs with modern technology in as wide a range of scenarios as possible, with no backward glances to how we used to do things. 

If you want the experience, get the MD. If you want to take photographs, get the SL.

My sentiments exactly. I love the M-D for the film-like experience. If I just want a tool for the occasion, I use my Fuji X-T2 and X100F.

On 2/20/2020 at 7:06 AM, Hero To Zero said:

Well it's taken a while but I finally settled on the M-D, with an Elmarit 28 2.8 v3 for starters.

The camera I always promised myself, when and if I was ever (again) in the position to get one. 😊 

Cheers to all for your very helpful advice. 

Good call, you made the right choice. 😊