adriantyler Posted November 26, 2019 Share #1 Posted November 26, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I picked up an ex demo M10, having used and loved M3's M6's and having been somewhat frustrated with the M9 when it came out (I sold it soon after purchase) Since the M9 I went the Nikon D3x & D810 then Sony A7 route (A7rII and Rx1rII) and consider the latter (along with DXO) to have the best contemporary 35mm sensors. Now, having used the M10 for a while I don't miss the "extra" resolution or dynamic range. I use and expose the M10 differently and the results are (to my eye) more "film-like" out of the box. So, here is the question, we are so accustomed to see "film based" images with the inherent limits on dynamic range etc. Do you think we need more? cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 26, 2019 Posted November 26, 2019 Hi adriantyler, Take a look here M10 sensor (Does one need more). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Sad Posted November 27, 2019 Share #2 Posted November 27, 2019 13 hours ago, adriantyler said: Do you think we need more? Needing more is always a matter of personal taste and preference. As one cannot answer this question for everyone, I can tell you that the current capabilities of the sensor are enough for me personally. For me, the limitations of the sensor are more rewarding than a do-it-all sensor in the end. Especially since the M10 is a camera I solely use for my enjoyment and I do not rely on having a massive dynamic range for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knipsknecht Posted November 27, 2019 Share #3 Posted November 27, 2019 I think it's a question of personal taste and the individual use case. Some would like to have a sensor like the one built in the SL2, some don't need it (or don't know what kind of advantage it would give their individual kind of photography). So, on the one side I think this is a rather philosophical question, but, on the other hand I think the market trends heavily towards higher resolution. That's why I am pretty sure we will see sooner or later a new Leica M model with a higher count of MP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 27, 2019 Share #4 Posted November 27, 2019 I don't quite follow the dynamic range argument. Here are the charts for dynamic range and shadow recovery from PhotonstoPhotos for M10 and Nikon D850: http://photonstophotos.net/ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/303873-m10-sensor-does-one-need-more/?do=findComment&comment=3862888'>More sharing options...
adriantyler Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted November 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, jaapv said: I don't quite follow the dynamic range argument. Here are the charts for dynamic range and shadow recovery from PhotonstoPhotos for M10 and Nikon D850 Sorry for any misunderstanding, my question is if we need more, not who is the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted November 27, 2019 Share #6 Posted November 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, adriantyler said: Sorry for any misunderstanding, my question is if we need more, not who is the best! As illustrated the M10 sensor is excellent and I don't think we need more. Also don't understand the need for IBIS for a rangefinder camera where the majority use with 28,35 and 50mm lenses most of the time. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted November 27, 2019 Share #7 Posted November 27, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M9 sensor was certainly adequate for me, but manufacturers make what they think will sell more, not what is needed. (I do like my M10 - but not because of the higher resolution.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 27, 2019 Share #8 Posted November 27, 2019 48 minutes ago, adriantyler said: Sorry for any misunderstanding, my question is if we need more, not who is the best! Yes, but it remains a relative question. One can only have more if more exists Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted November 28, 2019 Share #9 Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) And if one has more resolution, will it make sense on an M? If the next M has IBIS, I suppose it might start to be useful, but you might also find you're having to update / grade your lenses to cope with this level + your computer system to deal with the file size. I run the M10 alongside the (slightly) higher 30.4 MP Canon 5D4 and I really don't have any issues with the M's low light performance of file size (printing up to A2). Do I need more? Not sure... Am I unhappy with the M10 - absolutely not. I love the handling, the image quality, the look and feel. Will i go for a higher MP all singing and dancing M11. Really not sure! Edited November 28, 2019 by chris_tribble Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike3996 Posted November 28, 2019 Share #10 Posted November 28, 2019 The sensor itself is great. Some things related to sensor tech would be useful and welcome, like electronic first curtain and perhaps full-on electronic shutter to help life with the Noctiluxes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per P. Posted November 28, 2019 Share #11 Posted November 28, 2019 I emphatically don't need more. But I accept that no scientist, technician, or company, could ever leave good enough alone. And I also accept that newer technologies and improvements will sometimes allow for pictures that you simply could not make with older technology. It is just generally not in areas that I need to express what I have on my mind creatively. In fact, some level of limitation or restriction tends to focus my mind and raise the quality of my work. As a side note, to illustrate the irony of continued progress, I am sure Mr. Karber must tear his hair out over all the time he spends reducing vignetting, just for many of us to add them back in again. Or wonder why so many people are attracted to digital photos with a little bit of grain added for old school texture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adriantyler Posted November 28, 2019 Author Share #12 Posted November 28, 2019 I don’t need more either, I upgraded my Sony RX1 to the RX1rII and regretted doing so as it was slower and (for me) a bit more tricky to get pixel sharp... I’ve up resed and printed M9 18mp and cropped Nikon D3x files to 150 cm wide and they look great. Sure those Sony 42mp sensors allow more cropping but that I feel is the only possible issue (for me) so basically I’m very satisfied. I use one lens on the M and the issue for me, apart from the unique character of the lens, was that I feel like I’m using an optical device and not a computer simulation of an optical device. Back in the day I used the M6 for 35mm and then 6x6 and 6x9 and 4x5, I recon the M10 covers the first 3 formats and the Sony A7rII with adapted Canon TSE lensed covers the technical camera side... A lot less to lug around! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted November 28, 2019 Share #13 Posted November 28, 2019 38 minutes ago, Per P. said: As a side note, to illustrate the irony of continued progress, I am sure Mr. Karber must tear his hair out over all the time he spends reducing vignetting, just for many of us to add them back in again. Or wonder why so many people are attracted to digital photos with a little bit of grain added for old school texture And it can’t be easy when Leica customers complain about "too big", "too sterile" etc., and the market pulls towards higher resolution and better corner to corner sharpness. Unfortunately (?) it seems that they choose to follow the flow. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 28, 2019 Share #14 Posted November 28, 2019 Well, they cannot afford to have measurabating influencers hammering them on lagging behind market trends, silly as they may be. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per P. Posted November 28, 2019 Share #15 Posted November 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, evikne said: And it can’t be easy when Leica customers complain about "too big", "too sterile" etc., and the market pulls towards higher resolution and better corner to corner sharpness. Unfortunately (?) it seems that they choose to follow the flow. But we can still beat them by applying our presets with film-like properties and make it look like a good old Kodachrome or Tri-X again 🙂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted November 28, 2019 Share #16 Posted November 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, Per P. said: But we can still beat them by applying our presets with film-like properties and make it look like a good old Kodachrome or Tri-X again 🙂 Yes, we can emulate the results. But we cannot emulate smaller lenses. 😉 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted November 30, 2019 Share #17 Posted November 30, 2019 On 11/28/2019 at 8:33 AM, jaapv said: Well, they cannot afford to have measurabating influencers hammering them on lagging behind market trends, silly as they may be. Are any "influencers" actually influencing Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobert Posted November 30, 2019 Share #18 Posted November 30, 2019 2 hours ago, dkmoore said: Are any "influencers" actually influencing Leica? Luckily not. Then we would have had a M type with electronic view finder in stead of the optical one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 30, 2019 Share #19 Posted November 30, 2019 3 hours ago, dkmoore said: Are any "influencers" actually influencing Leica? Yes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted December 1, 2019 Share #20 Posted December 1, 2019 9 hours ago, jdlaing said: Yes. Um, who? I’m talking new age influencers. I am not being argumentative. I’m curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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