SL2 issue with exposure simulation in Manual mode

[lct]

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8 minutes ago, profus said:

Simple. It is manual. I always decide aperture and shutter speed. Camera only calculates ISO ( AUTO ISO ). Then if i would like my image to be a bit darker/lighter I use exposure compensation that slightly alter ISO ( keeping A and SS unchanged ). Very convenient [...]

+1

[NRKstudio]

30 minutes ago, Artin said:

I Know it works fine but how is that manual exposure ??? when you still have a Auto setting that effects exposure selected by the CPU.

The way I see it is like this ... This is a Professional Camera at the Apex of the full frame Format. they have provided us with everything you need to create incredible images 

at price ticket of entry into this system it certainly is not for point and shoot therefore the thinking is right. If in manual mode??  then make every choice. do not rely on the CPU 

Leica has it right 

I usually don’t but if it’s an option, then it should work properly.

the issue from my first post is that “exposure simulation” has the option to be “permanent” (permanently displayed).  However it is not permanently displayed when the user sets the  exposure (by SS, F stop, and/Or iso) to a place where the rear screen is dark, black, too light or washed out.  In that case, the preview on the rear screen or EVF is not reflective of the picture that would result upon shutter release (thus the exposure simulation is neither “permanent” or viewable upon “shutter half press”).    That is the issue.  A related issue is that, when the camera calculates the exposure may be too dark or or too light, the exposure simulation ceases to be permanent, thus I may take a picture expecting it to reflect the live view but in fact the pic does not reflect the live view.  
I’ll test today though.  I’m admittedly a 5 day user of the SL2, so who knows!

 

 

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[digitalfx]

I think it would be helpful if auto iso was disabled by default in M mode. When I tested I didn’t realize auto iso carried over, so I assumed that the function wasn’t working correctly, when in reality it was simply doing its job.

In M mode Auto ISO Is working against you. 

[Exodies]

If you take aperture to be depth of field control, shutter speed to be subject motion freezing control and ISO to be exposure control then some things appear a little more rational.

[digitalfx]

Maybe that should be called MA

When switching to M- the user should have full control of all parameters leaving the photographer In control of under/over via any of the parameters.

The simple solution is to set up an M profile vs just manually switching to M mode via thumb wheel which leaves your previous iso setting intact even if it’s set to auto.

 On the M10 I rarely use Auto ISO as it has a dedicated ISO dial, so I got in the habit of quickly switching between A and M without any regard as to ISO automatically compensating. It’s a habit I’ll need to break with the SL2

 

[anickpick]

Am 24.11.2019 um 03:50 schrieb NRKstudio:

Disclaimer: I am very new to the SLx firmware, so it may be user error here, but thanks in advance if you can solve this issue.  
 

Does anyone have an idea how to turn on permanent exposure simulation when the camera is in Manual mode ( set aperture, set shutter speed, auto iso)?  The SL2 will not preview the exposure even when the shutter is half way pressed.  I think it’s the autoISO that is disabling the exp preview in Manual mode.  When you use exposure compensation in Manual mode, it doesn’t change the look of the preview on the lcd at all, the exposure doesn’t seem to change until you take a picture and then see the screen as all black or washed out.  

I had the same problem with the Q2, I posted there a few months ago without a solid answer to the issue.  

Even when the exposure simulation is set to PASM, the exposure (f stop, shutter speed and iso) is not simulated when looking at the rear LCD or through the view finder.  

On the M10-p, this is not the same deficiency of exposure preview at all.  On the M, With the shutter set, the aperture set (manual lens of course), and the iso on Auto, you can change the Ev compensation and watch the preview react by brightening or darkening without having to half press the shutter.  The live view reflects the shot you are actually taking, unlike the SL2 which does not display how bright or dark the shot is going to come out.  

 

I just experienced something similar: Exposure compensation was not simulated in a low light situation with somewhat longer shutter speeds (0.5 seconds).

It did neither work in A mode nor in M mode and regardless of Auto Iso or set Iso.

[NRKstudio]

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49 minutes ago, anickpick said:

 

I just experienced something similar: Exposure compensation was not simulated in a low light situation with somewhat longer shutter speeds (0.5 seconds).

It did neither work in A mode nor in M mode and regardless of Auto Iso or set Iso.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about 

[thighslapper]

1 hour ago, anickpick said:

 

I just experienced something similar: Exposure compensation was not simulated in a low light situation with somewhat longer shutter speeds (0.5 seconds).

It did neither work in A mode nor in M mode and regardless of Auto Iso or set Iso.

There was a point on the SL where simulation ceased to be reliable/functional and the histogram accurate as well ..... although it was for very much longer exposures (1-2 minutes) ..... however the metering functioned perfectly. I think a fair bit more investigation is required here to sort out exactly what is taking place.....

[SrMi]

It is also important to set the 'Exposure Preview' to P-A-S-M and not only to P-A-S. With P-A-S setting and in Manual mode, EVF maintains constant brightness regardless of actual over- or under-exposure.

[tommydom]

Full disclosure, the camera bodies I own are the SL and the Monochrom 246 AND my thread of thought may be completely off...

Something that tripped me up on the SL [unfortunately more than once...] was when switching from SL native lenses to M lenses... Even in MF focusing mode, using Aperture Priority mode "A" on the camera with the native SL75 lens on the body, engaging the joystick to zoom in did "nothing". What I had failed to do is set the "AE/AL Lock Button" to "Zoom". Zoom - I think - was introduced in a firmware update after the manual was printed when I purchased.

So, what lens was used @NRKstudio? I wonder if there are some other variables in play...

[ron777]

I assume that you are hoping to visualize—via the EVF or LCD—the effect of aperture and or speed changes while in manual mode with auto iso disabled.  I am certain that I will be flamed for making a comparison between the SL2 and the Panasonic S1r, but the S1r allows for this visualization via a PREVIEW function activated by a Fn button on the front of the camera.  I would assume that the SL2 has a similar offering, although the nomenclature and means of activation may differ.

[ron777]

Grow up, son , just trying to help but I guess that you are such a Leicaholic that any mention of another brand, helpful or otherwise, is deemed unacceptable and I find such unrealistic behavior nauseating and in unbecoming.

[ron777]

We are all current, past and prospective Leica users presumably here to assist each other and share experiences, and if that involves comparisons, and references to other brands it should not be frowned upon. Since the SL 2 draws much from the S1R it should not be a stretch to assume that they both offer similar functions, or at the very least a simple means of accomplishing his desired result.

[NRKstudio]

Hey y’all, so this is the setting which will fail to display permanent exposure simulation mode on the SL2:  M mode, auto iso, (any af/MF mode).  When the photo you are about to take may be pretty underexposed, permanent exposure simulation turns off and the camera enters “exposure simulation [when] shutter [is] half pressed”  mode.  
 

thus you can try to add or subtract exposure compensation but the photo does not appear to become brighter or darker respectively.  You will have to half press the shutter to see what the picture will look like, I.e. the effect of the exposure compensation.  

[NRKstudio]

5 minutes ago, Artin said:

Why is it that you presume the Sl2 draws from the S1r. What makes you think that the S1 r does not draw from the SL2 

just like in the old days when everyone used to think Leica was using Minolta designs and technology when in fact it was the other way around.  Leica sets the benchmark in photography they have done so for 80 + years .. I really doubt that Leica is drawing anything from a toaster maker 

Hey I think Leica did rely on Panasonic and Huawei for software development over time.  
 

https://leicarumors.com/2014/09/19/panasonic-and-leica-camera-expand-partnership-agreement-in-the-digital-camera-sector.aspx/

this agreement just ended a couple months ago. , and seems to be superseded by the L Alliance.  The sensor in the SL, Q, and Q2 was developed by TowerJazz, which Panasonic owned/financed in large part for quite some time.  The DFD focus software was used by Leica as well in relation to focusing with this sensor.   I don’t believe every article I read, but it’s a pretty long standing relationship.  Panasonic pays Leica for optics in all their point and shoot cameras plus some others, and Leica uses Panasonic’s (an electronic giant) huge R/D budget spent on software and sensor development.  
 

Here’s the signing of the cooperative endeavor agreement.  CEO of Leica (Albert Schopf) in 2014 with Panasonic’s Imaging Division Chief (president of AVC Networks which is Panasonic’s camera wing).  

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[Chaemono]

Panasonic’s CDAF DFD technology that continuously scans the scene has completely eliminated the hunting in low light with lenses like the 50 Summilux-SL and the SL Summicrons.  It’s faster and more accurate to focus the SL2 in low light now than the α7R IV.  I shot them side by side.

[sillbeers15]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

Panasonic’s CDAF DFD technology that continuously scans the scene has completely eliminated the hunting in low light with lenses like the 50 Summilux-SL and the SL Summicrons.  It’s faster and more accurate to focus the SL2 in low light now than the α7R IV.  I shot them side by side.

Comforting to hear your experience shared as I know I can trust your objective accessment. 

I’m pretty certain that with a strong enough processor and further firmware tweeking, there is more room for the CDAF to improve. The limitation will be only accessible to the lenses which data is stored in the processor’s database. No other 3rd party lenses can ever be compatible. Also it sucks more battery juice faster than PDAF+CDAF hybrid.

[lct]

6 hours ago, Artin said:

[...] just like in the old days when everyone used to think Leica was using Minolta designs and technology when in fact it was the other way around [...]

The R3 to R7 bodies were Minolta cameras adapted by Leica basically. Same for "PanaLeica" bodies with Panasonic currently. Unity makes strength, Eendracht maakt macht, l'union fait la force . Nothing to be ashamed about IMHO.

[ron777]

9 hours ago, Artin said:

Why is it that you presume the Sl2 draws from the S1r. What makes you think that the S1 r does not draw from the SL2 

just like in the old days when everyone used to think Leica was using Minolta designs and technology when in fact it was the other way around.  Leica sets the benchmark in photography they have done so for 80 + years .. I really doubt that Leica is drawing anything from a toaster maker 

Drink some more Kool Aid and dream on or better still, go back and read some of the many confirmatory posts on this forum in re Leica’s use  of Panasonic technology. 
That said, you’ve taken a simple attempt at assisting a forum member and have turned it into something ugly. You need help, sir and I don’t mean photographic.
 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by ron777

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[profus]

22 hours ago, digitalfx said:

I think it would be helpful if auto iso was disabled by default in M mode. When I tested I didn’t realize auto iso carried over, so I assumed that the function wasn’t working correctly, when in reality it was simply doing its job.

In M mode Auto ISO Is working against you. 

Well, not against me...